The Ultimate Showdown. American Vs. European Vs. Japanese

[~The Guyver~]

IN your opinion, who makes the best cars?

/votes american all the way

But european is a close second.

[seeking]

European


Bugatti Veyron - the most hp in a production car in the world

VW: the fastest shifting automatic gearbox in the world (DSG), not to mention VW is the reason hatchbacks even exist in america

when peopel think luxury...BMW and Mercedes pop in thiere heard


!!!!



/notices that c-town will vote japenese...also notices that the 3 of us all voted for different options but are still bestest friends

[~The Guyver~]

:) notices teh opposites attrack.

/notices me going to pick up teh V-dub soon, and wonders if they have teh DSG for it?

[seeking]

DSG is only for GTI and GLI models -=/

your getting the 2.5 right? stick with manual, the tip-tronic automatics SUCK, also should be noted...the 08 models will be comming out with an "S line" that has 180hp from the same engine..rather than the 150 it puts out right now....might be worth it to wait


also..what color you guys looking at getting?

[Mr Burns]

American cars all the way. Seeking I never really cared for hatchbacks. But I always liked the last gen Passat. Anyway I'd still put European cars way ahead of the Japanese cars. They have no soul.

[007]

whoever made the pinto

[Mr Burns]

^Ford and it's a terrible blemish on the American auto industry.

[seeking]

i seen a pinto completly DESTROY, i mean anihilate an STI one day...must have had some kind of engine swap or something, but the pinto just completley blew the sti off the road

[c-towNsawedOFF]

European


Bugatti Veyron - the most hp in a production car in the world

VW: the fastest shifting automatic gearbox in the world (DSG), not to mention VW is the reason hatchbacks even exist in america

when peopel think luxury...BMW and Mercedes pop in thiere heard


!!!!



/notices that c-town will vote japenese...also notices that the 3 of us all voted for different options but are still bestest friends


lol, i DID vote jap, and im the only one. but ya, i dont care who wins as long as domestics lose

[seeking]

the euro option is going to take votes from the jap side away, so i think domestic is going to win this battle...dont matter though, all that matters is that we're having fun

[ICE<>COLD]

American

[UziMachine]

American muscle baby. just like me

[C-Note]

American!!!!!!!!! :-D

[c-towNsawedOFF]

:mecry: i should :pslap: whoever desided to take a re-vote

and im the only one for japanese cars??? how is this, ppl dont like infiniti's?? acuras??? honda, toyota..... i mean they lead in world wide sales so they are doing something right

[Deee]

European


Bugatti Veyron - the most hp in a production car in the world

VW: the fastest shifting automatic gearbox in the world (DSG), not to mention VW is the reason hatchbacks even exist in america

when peopel think luxury...BMW and Mercedes pop in thiere heard


!!!!



/notices that c-town will vote japenese...also notices that the 3 of us all voted for different options but are still bestest friends
I was going to say the exact same think, but u did it for me, also throw in that the italians and germans got some of the best car designs.

and sawdoff, hondas and toyotas sell because they have great gas mileage and are cheap

[seeking]

also though, the demographic for toyotas and hondas is not the same demographic that is on this website, so the numbers wont reflect

[Mr Burns]

:mecry: i should :pslap: whoever desided to take a re-vote

and im the only one for japanese cars??? how is this, ppl dont like infiniti's?? acuras??? honda, toyota..... i mean they lead in world wide sales so they are doing something right

people who generally buy Japanese cars aren't usually passionate about cars. They buy them because they are reliable and effecient. So chances are of the millions who do buy them. Few would be interested in chating about cars online. Cause they treat there cars no differently than they do any of there other appliances.

[memfrysrboi]

:mecry: i should :pslap: whoever desided to take a re-vote

and im the only one for japanese cars??? how is this, ppl dont like infiniti's?? acuras??? honda, toyota..... i mean they lead in world wide sales so they are doing something right
your not the only one, now as for the question who makes better cars, better as in reliability or performance or both, in reliability i goes to japanese hands down, hondas will last forever, the 2jzgte engine is one of the best built engines to ever come off of the assembly line, able to put down well above 800hp on stock block and trans and be a very reliable daily driver at the same time, performance goes to american no doubt but if its gona break down every time you run it whats the point, looks go to european, ferrari,lambo,porshe,bugatti,mercedes,bmw......... ..the list goes on, but i voted for japanese,to me it goes like this jap,euro and wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy at the botton america

[~The Guyver~]

DSG is only for GTI and GLI models -=/

your getting the 2.5 right? stick with manual, the tip-tronic automatics SUCK, also should be noted...the 08 models will be comming out with an "S line" that has 180hp from the same engine..rather than the 150 it puts out right now....might be worth it to wait


also..what color you guys looking at getting?

The one we are getting is used, and was only 500 bucks for like a perfect condition car thats why.lol. but its black, but ill post more info about it when i get it.

[~The Guyver~]

your not the only one, now as for the question who makes better cars, better as in reliability or performance or both, in reliability i goes to japanese hands down, hondas will last forever, the 2jzgte engine is one of the best built engines to ever come off of the assembly line, able to put down well above 800hp on stock block and trans and be a very reliable daily driver at the same time, performance goes to american no doubt but if its gona break down every time you run it whats the point, looks go to european, ferrari,lambo,porshe,bugatti,mercedes,bmw......... ..the list goes on, but i voted for japanese,to me it goes like this jap,euro and wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy at the botton america

Japanese cars will last up until you get into a wreck going more then 5 miles per hour, and compleltely annihalate the frame.

/see's 20,30,40,50,60 year old domestics on the road all teh time.

[seeking]

The one we are getting is used, and was only 500 bucks for like a perfect condition car thats why.lol. but its black, but ill post more info about it when i get it.


so you're not getting the new body style then im assuming, what year is it?


/notices black is a hard color to find, especially on the 93-99 model years

[KrayzieRoach]

Jap thnx

[c-towNsawedOFF]

people who generally buy Japanese cars aren't usually passionate about cars. They buy them because they are reliable and effecient. So chances are of the millions who do buy them. Few would be interested in chating about cars online. Cause they treat there cars no differently than they do any of there other appliances.

ok, ppl who buy jap cars arent passionate about cars? ok go to a car show and you will see 70% import (45% jap, 25% euro) and the rest project cars and domestic.
i could say just the opposite, ppl who buy domestic cars arent passionate, a huge chunk of domestic sales are trucks........ so not really racers (again, to easy. bolt on parts on domestic cars can give you 100hp+ imports you have to do work (accept civics and integras~~trash) )
iDK around my area, there are no domestic racers, maybe 5/100 ppl. idk how it is in the south, midwest

[memfrysrboi]

Japanese cars will last up until you get into a wreck going more then 5 miles per hour, and compleltely annihalate the frame.

/see's 20,30,40,50,60 year old domestics on the road all teh time.
thats not necessarily true, and even if it does get into a wreck and total it, you can rebuild imports easily, just check out all the honda guys rebuilding COMPLETELY STRIPPED integras and civics due to theft, and i guarantee you that 20,30,40,50,60 years from now, you will still see 92+ civic hatchbacks and si's,del sols, prelude, skylines, rsx's, s2000's, 2003+ 350z, all generation toyoto supras,300zx,240sx,mr2's,3000gts,evos,wrx's etc................all still tearing up the streets

[Mr Burns]

^ a car that has been stripped due to theft is very different than a car that has a bent frame from a wreck. When the frame is bent it usually costs way more than the car is worth to fix. Why anybody would waste there time to rebuild a Civic...I will never understand?

[memfrysrboi]

the same reason why anyone would waste the time restoring a car thats 30 years old, also it doesnt cost a whole lot to rebuild a integra or civic and then when u finish you can say "I MYSELF BUILT THIS CAR FROM SCRATCH AND PUT MY SWEAT BLOOD AND TEARS INTO IT"

[Mr Burns]

^I still don't see the similarity. A 70's Chevelle is a rare find. You can't readily find models on car lots or anywhere else for that matter. A Civic, be it a 1990 model or a 2002 model can be found everywhere. Why spend the time restoring a wrecked Civic when it would be far cheaper to simply go and buy one of the hordes of Civics clogging up used car lots everywhere?

Now if you are talking about modifying a Civic from its stock set up. Well if that is your thing. Than I guess I could understand that. But I really don't understand why anyone would rebuild a wrecked civic. That would be like me rebuilding my Monte Carlo if God forbid something happened to it. It wouldn't be worth it. I'd be better off buying a used one for far less money.

[~The Guyver~]

ok, ppl who buy jap cars arent passionate about cars? ok go to a car show and you will see 70% import (45% jap, 25% euro) and the rest project cars and domestic.
i could say just the opposite, ppl who buy domestic cars arent passionate, a huge chunk of domestic sales are trucks........ so not really racers (again, to easy. bolt on parts on domestic cars can give you 100hp+ imports you have to do work (accept civics and integras~~trash) )
iDK around my area, there are no domestic racers, maybe 5/100 ppl. idk how it is in the south, midwest


No if you go to a REAL car show you will see mainly american, or european cars. Unless the shows are aimed at tuners, and the "who can rice their car out the most" crowd, most BIG car shows arent japanese cars.At the track I go to almost all domestic. In chicago, no matter where we go F bodys themselves outnumber hondas and mitsubishi's, when we go up to detroit, wisconsin, even when we went down to florida to visit, their dragstrip was all muscle. And there is alot mroe work in domestic, the parts just tend to be tougher and can handle mroe punishment.Why spend 30 thousand on a jap car when I can spend 5 thousand on an american muscle and smoke most of them arounD?

[~The Guyver~]

thats not necessarily true, and even if it does get into a wreck and total it, you can rebuild imports easily, just check out all the honda guys rebuilding COMPLETELY STRIPPED integras and civics due to theft, and i guarantee you that 20,30,40,50,60 years from now, you will still see 92+ civic hatchbacks and si's,del sols, prelude, skylines, rsx's, s2000's, 2003+ 350z, all generation toyoto supras,300zx,240sx,mr2's,3000gts,evos,wrx's etc................all still tearing up the streets


I see toyota's all the time.Them bitch's can be rusted down to frame and engine and still run. Love toyota's, yet most of them that are here are built here with american parts. And Old nissans are cool, but 20,30 so years from now? I barely see any '92's around now.I mean they are there, but deffinetly not as much as american.and do to theft, that isnt anything.Ive seen honda's get backed into,and completely trash the frame.

[c-towNsawedOFF]

I see toyota's all the time.Them bitch's can be rusted down to frame and engine and still run. Love toyota's, yet most of them that are here are built here with american parts. And Old nissans are cool, but 20,30 so years from now? I barely see any '92's around now.I mean they are there, but deffinetly not as much as american.and do to theft, that isnt anything.Ive seen honda's get backed into,and completely trash the frame.


as for the classic car thingy, you see more american classics just cause its a different culture. american cars back in the day are timeless, imports are more about the next new thing, development and technology.
but every car rusts, i was lucky to find my 88 honda with no rust and i live in new england (roadsalt in winter eats metal)

[~The Guyver~]

American classics are worth more 2.thnx.

And america is catching up.

New camaro V8 30 MPG!!!!

And it will STILL be faster then shit.

[Die Die Die]

Volvo baby

[~The Guyver~]

^Safest cars in teh world.

[memfrysrboi]

American classics are worth more 2.thnx.

And america is catching up.

New camaro V8 30 MPG!!!!

And it will STILL be faster then shit.
Nissan 370z and Nissan GTR will be out, no to menchion the new mr2, and supra,2 door tsx, and 2 door altima, evo IX and many others

[memfrysrboi]

No if you go to a REAL car show you will see mainly american, or european cars. Unless the shows are aimed at tuners, and the "who can rice their car out the most" crowd, most BIG car shows arent japanese cars.At the track I go to almost all domestic. In chicago, no matter where we go F bodys themselves outnumber hondas and mitsubishi's, when we go up to detroit, wisconsin, even when we went down to florida to visit, their dragstrip was all muscle. And there is alot mroe work in domestic, the parts just tend to be tougher and can handle mroe punishment.Why spend 30 thousand on a jap car when I can spend 5 thousand on an american muscle and smoke most of them arounD?
actually the biggest car show in the world nopi nationals is mostly import, hot import nights, nopi, irev, and countless other car shows, and i highly doubt f bodys out number hondas anywhere lol, especially in places like florida,texas and cali, even here in memphis we have more imports than domestics running around

[memfrysrboi]

I see toyota's all the time.Them bitch's can be rusted down to frame and engine and still run. Love toyota's, yet most of them that are here are built here with american parts. And Old nissans are cool, but 20,30 so years from now? I barely see any '92's around now.I mean they are there, but deffinetly not as much as american.and do to theft, that isnt anything.Ive seen honda's get backed into,and completely trash the frame.
you barely see any becuase most of them are garage queens, just like all of the other rare imports,supras,rx7's, their not gona be daily driven just like your not gona see many 1960,70 muscle cars daily driven because their garage queens, and then when they do bring them out they trailor most of them to car shows n such, but i promise you just like people started restoring the older muscle cars that are 30,40,50 years old, its gona be the same way with imports 50 years from now, and you've seen hondas get backed into and trash the frame, at what 50mph?????

[Vega/Set]

American Muscle :nod:

[Die Die Die]

^Safest cars in teh world.yup lol. My dad's crazy about them, he has 2 volvo's. One golden one from 84 i believe with pimped out rims and everything. The other one is meh

[~The Guyver~]

you barely see any becuase most of them are garage queens, just like all of the other rare imports,supras,rx7's, their not gona be daily driven just like your not gona see many 1960,70 muscle cars daily driven because their garage queens, and then when they do bring them out they trailor most of them to car shows n such, but i promise you just like people started restoring the older muscle cars that are 30,40,50 years old, its gona be the same way with imports 50 years from now, and you've seen hondas get backed into and trash the frame, at what 50mph?????

NO you wont see them, because they wont retain as much value.They are very highly mass produced, they are nothing special and they will retain no value. Plus by then they wont be anything special.Cheap parts arent going to be to special.I agree with the Rx7's because of the different technologys, but the other ones dont have the value, or the heritage that american muscle has.

[~The Guyver~]

Nissan 370z and Nissan GTR will be out, no to menchion the new mr2, and supra,2 door tsx, and 2 door altima, evo IX and many others

And the camaro will still drag them all :)

[~The Guyver~]

actually the biggest car show in the world nopi nationals is mostly import, hot import nights, nopi, irev, and countless other car shows, and i highly doubt f bodys out number hondas anywhere lol, especially in places like florida,texas and cali, even here in memphis we have more imports than domestics running around

Most of the imports are not driven as racers they are drivin for economy. Ive been to some of the biggest car show's in the country and even with the imports its the american muscles and european that gather the most attention. And a 1969 camaro is more sought after then any import.Not to mention all the other kings of muscle.

[memfrysrboi]

And the camaro will still drag them all :)
not the gtr or the supra

[memfrysrboi]

Most of the imports are not driven as racers they are drivin for economy. Ive been to some of the biggest car show's in the country and even with the imports its the american muscles and european that gather the most attention. And a 1969 camaro is more sought after then any import.Not to mention all the other kings of muscle.
yes but the biggest carshow in the entire world, nopi nationals is catered to mostly imports,and of course the 1969 camaro is more sought after then any import because its older , but ill tell you this the skyline,supra,and integra type R, are 3 most sought after imports and I guarentee you that there are more 1969 camaros in this country than supras,skylines or ITR's

[memfrysrboi]

NO you wont see them, because they wont retain as much value.They are very highly mass produced, they are nothing special and they will retain no value. Plus by then they wont be anything special.Cheap parts arent going to be to special.I agree with the Rx7's because of the different technologys, but the other ones dont have the value, or the heritage that american muscle has.
they were not higly mass produced, only a little over 13K supras came to the US, and around that same number with the FD rx7s, they will retain value, and used supras at this very moment on average sell well past 20K, as well as the Integra Type R, FD rx7s sell as low as 10K, again with the value and heritage of american muscle, you cant compare a rare car thats 30,40,50 years old to a car thats 10-20 years old, let me ask you this, were those american muscle cars rare when they first came out ,no, but 40 years later they are, are imports rare now,no, but 40 years from now they will be, the supra,rx7,3000gt,mr2,300zx,nsx are already rare, porshes are more common than some of those, you see ferrari or lambos just about as much as you see a supra or rx7

[c-towNsawedOFF]

NO you wont see them, because they wont retain as much value.They are very highly mass produced, they are nothing special and they will retain no value. Plus by then they wont be anything special.Cheap parts arent going to be to special.I agree with the Rx7's because of the different technologys, but the other ones dont have the value, or the heritage that american muscle has.

They are cheaper because more were produced because more people buy imports.....
as for the car show comment, ive personally been to 5 shows in boston area and they were basically ALL imports and maybe 20 % american (throwing domestics a bone)

[c-towNsawedOFF]

they were not higly mass produced, only a little over 13K supras came to the US, and around that same number with the FD rx7s, they will retain value, and used supras at this very moment on average sell well past 20K, as well as the Integra Type R, FD rx7s sell as low as 10K, again with the value and heritage of american muscle, you cant compare a rare car thats 30,40,50 years old to a car thats 10-20 years old, let me ask you this, were those american muscle cars rare when they first came out ,no, but 40 years later they are, are imports rare now,no, but 40 years from now they will be, the supra,rx7,3000gt,mr2,300zx,nsx are already rare, porshes are more common than some of those, you see ferrari or lambos just about as much as you see a supra or rx7


yea, depends on the car. like a type R here in america will go for 25 grand, thats crazy for a car 10 years old.
a version of my car, 1991 honda prelude "SiStates" edition goes for 10 grand...thats a car 15 years old, thats crazy.

[Mr Burns]

As far as shows go. It is going to depend on what kind of show you go to. I've been to shows that were almost all imports. But I've also been to shows that were all Camaros or all Impalas or Monte Carlos.

[~The Guyver~]

there's '69 camaro's going for over 500000 dollars just stock and in good condition.A japanese car will NEVER go for that much.

[memfrysrboi]

^^^you never know what the future holds, and where did you see that at????? and im pretty sure if any import make it up to that price the supra, skyline or ITR will, especially considering alot of skylines and other japanese cars are already goin for $100,000+ just to import over here

[Krayzie7th]

not the gtr or the supra

that thing is a lot of people think of those cars but in there modded form, they aint really that powerful on stock form stock supra vs stock SS i bet the camaro will win everytime.

[memfrysrboi]

but nobody keeps cars like that stock

[Krayzie7th]

ok well if nobody keeps theres cars stock then im sure there is more camaros, trans ams or cobras that are faster then then supras n gtr's.

[~The Guyver~]

^^^you never know what the future holds, and where did you see that at????? and im pretty sure if any import make it up to that price the supra, skyline or ITR will, especially considering alot of skylines and other japanese cars are already goin for $100,000+ just to import over here

Go to auctions all the time.Seen 'em on tv. Japanese cars are usually made with cheap material, and hold no special collecters value.They will NEVER get as much as a musclecar will. Will never catch up with them either.thnx.

[memfrysrboi]

ok well if nobody keeps theres cars stock then im sure there is more camaros, trans ams or cobras that are faster then then supras n gtr's.
well thats because there are wayyyyyyyyyyy more camaros,trans ams, and cobras in america, but most of those are not faster than supras or skylines, supras are easily able to achieve 1000+hp on stock block and trans

[memfrysrboi]

Go to auctions all the time.Seen 'em on tv. Japanese cars are usually made with cheap material, and hold no special collecters value.They will NEVER get as much as a musclecar will. Will never catch up with them either.thnx.
how can you say a skyline or supra or an nsx will not hold collectors value, 3 of the rarest cars in america,especially the skyline, the skyline and supra are two of the most sought after cars in america by any car enthusiast, they WILL catch up to the muscle cars, and most muscle cars will not see past 100K, especially if its been at the track its whole life like most muscle cars have been, as a matter of fact, the only time i do see the older muscle cars is at the drag strip on trailors, that 500K 69' camaro was once in about 1000, their not early-mid 1900 mercedes or rolls royce that i see valued at 500k+ all the time

[memfrysrboi]

oh and from what im looking at on ebay, those 500K 1967-69 camaros of yours are going for 20K - 50K, 80% of them are in the 20k-30k and a few in 40,50,60K a few in 80,90K and ONLY TWO are goin for 100K plus, and thats only 160K and 125K, nope no 500k there, BUT WAIT i see MKIV toyota supras priced at 27K-85K:wtff: 90% of them are 40K-50K and these are only 14 years old cars, just wait till their 30 or 40 years old, 100K++++++++++ easily

[Krayzie7th]

well thats because there are wayyyyyyyyyyy more camaros,trans ams, and cobras in america, but most of those are not faster than supras or skylines, supras are easily able to achieve 1000+hp on stock block and trans

the reason they can hold more is cus they come with a FI from factory so of course they have to withstand more.And just about how much money does it take to get them to 1000hp? a freaking lot. I bet i can get an 800rwhp camaro or mustang i run the same times a supra with 1000hp would.

[memfrysrboi]

the reason they can hold more is cus they come with a FI from factory so of course they have to withstand more.And just about how much money does it take to get them to 1000hp? a freaking lot. I bet i can get an 800rwhp camaro or mustang i run the same times a supra with 1000hp would.
you prob could get a 800rwhp camaro or mustang to run the same times a 1000hp supra would, no denying that, but only because of traction and/or afraid of breaking sumthin, thats why alot of people now especially tuners dont run their cars from a dig anymore and rather go from a roll

[Krayzie7th]

i was saying i can run that time cus the lack of tq that supras have and they have to spool up, thats y a lot of them turbo cars race from a roll cus they spool faster then they would from a dig.

[~The Guyver~]

well thats because there are wayyyyyyyyyyy more camaros,trans ams, and cobras in america, but most of those are not faster than supras or skylines, supras are easily able to achieve 1000+hp on stock block and trans


Roflmao.bwahahahahaha.You are out of your damn mind. A stock LS1 camaro will make shit of those ricers, and there are a hell of alot more camaro's that are suped up and faster then there are supra's.Camaro's are one of the most popular dragsters and 90% of them will drag a supra.

[~The Guyver~]

how can you say a skyline or supra or an nsx will not hold collectors value, 3 of the rarest cars in america,especially the skyline, the skyline and supra are two of the most sought after cars in america by any car enthusiast, they WILL catch up to the muscle cars, and most muscle cars will not see past 100K, especially if its been at the track its whole life like most muscle cars have been, as a matter of fact, the only time i do see the older muscle cars is at the drag strip on trailors, that 500K 69' camaro was once in about 1000, their not early-mid 1900 mercedes or rolls royce that i see valued at 500k+ all the time

My shit is rare, doesnt mean its going to hold any collecters value.Cheap aluminum parts, that rolled off a production line like they where nothing. Muscle cars have heritage behind them, and if you only see them at tracks your out of your damn mind.Even tho the racers still would fetch more, just a '69 camaro stock that was restored and used as a cruiser will fetch a shitload. 1 in 1000? Well damn Ive seen some very rare sales. Goes for most muscle cars. Im restoring a 66 mustang right now. Ive seen those go for over a mill. Cheap aluminum parts, in a car that would be demolished in a low speed chase there isnt much for them to retain value.

[~The Guyver~]

oh and from what im looking at on ebay, those 500K 1967-69 camaros of yours are going for 20K - 50K, 80% of them are in the 20k-30k and a few in 40,50,60K a few in 80,90K and ONLY TWO are goin for 100K plus, and thats only 160K and 125K, nope no 500k there, BUT WAIT i see MKIV toyota supras priced at 27K-85K:wtff: 90% of them are 40K-50K and these are only 14 years old cars, just wait till their 30 or 40 years old, 100K++++++++++ easily


Hmm im not seeing these on ebay, but uh great example. Im sure people selling their muscle cars on ebay arent very big car enthusiasts and dont give two shits about how well restored they are.But when you've been around a 4th of the cars ive been around in my life, then we can have this discussion.

[~The Guyver~]

you prob could get a 800rwhp camaro or mustang to run the same times a 1000hp supra would, no denying that, but only because of traction and/or afraid of breaking sumthin, thats why alot of people now especially tuners dont run their cars from a dig anymore and rather go from a roll


I can get a stock camaro running 9's WAY WAY cheaper then you will get a supra to run 11's.And thats straight motor, no nitrous no turbo nothing.If you wanna start adding speed boosters like that, there is some ass whoopin' in progress going on.

[memfrysrboi]

Roflmao.bwahahahahaha.You are out of your damn mind. A stock LS1 camaro will make shit of those ricers, and there are a hell of alot more camaro's that are suped up and faster then there are supra's.Camaro's are one of the most popular dragsters and 90% of them will drag a supra.
ummm. didnt i just say there are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more camaros and mustangs, their not rare at all, their like hondas, their eveywhere no question about that, and yea krayzie7th and I already discussed that about supras dragging against muscle cars, but put that 1000hp supra on the highway and it will dust any muscle car you bring at it, there are supras running with suzuki hayabusas

[memfrysrboi]

My shit is rare, doesnt mean its going to hold any collecters value.Cheap aluminum parts, that rolled off a production line like they where nothing. Muscle cars have heritage behind them, and if you only see them at tracks your out of your damn mind.Even tho the racers still would fetch more, just a '69 camaro stock that was restored and used as a cruiser will fetch a shitload. 1 in 1000? Well damn Ive seen some very rare sales. Goes for most muscle cars. Im restoring a 66 mustang right now. Ive seen those go for over a mill. Cheap aluminum parts, in a car that would be demolished in a low speed chase there isnt much for them to retain value.
ok well even if ur car wont retain value, a supra will even if it doesnt have heritage or w/e, and you say they wont retain value but apparently they are if u see how much their selling for

[memfrysrboi]

Hmm im not seeing these on ebay, but uh great example. Im sure people selling their muscle cars on ebay arent very big car enthusiasts and dont give two shits about how well restored they are.But when you've been around a 4th of the cars ive been around in my life, then we can have this discussion.
how can u not see them???? their right their in your face not unless your lookin up the wrong thing or either your in denial, i specifically looked up 67-69 chevrolet camaros, and 80% of them are selling for 20k-40k, and how can you say they not big car enthusiasts, they know what type of cars they selling their not stupid and they also know they cant sell them for 500K, and umm your just 20, im 18, im sure ive been around more than a 4th of the cars you been around, except for muscle cars, your more knowledgable about domestics and im more knowledgable in tuners

[memfrysrboi]

I can get a stock camaro running 9's WAY WAY cheaper then you will get a supra to run 11's.And thats straight motor, no nitrous no turbo nothing.If you wanna start adding speed boosters like that, there is some ass whoopin' in progress going on.
whats your def of stock because from my knowledge of automobiles there isnt ANY stock production car that can run 9's??????

[MauriSSio]

Supras and Skylines are nice cars,but i think its funny how ricers put them up on such a pedestal. If you smoke their cars and get into a discussion with them about cars it always ends up with, "well,i bet u cant beat a skyline or supra" LOL arent there any other fast jap cars out there??
Supras are nice cars but no way theyre averaging 45K LMAO heres the True Market Value for a 1996 Supra http://www.edmunds.com/used/1996/toyota/supra/12024/options.html
modded supras are nice but 1000HP ones are extremely uncommon,but i dont doubt theyre out there somewhere but then again,were living at a time where 1000HP isnt as hard to achieve as it used to be, its fairly easy to build a 800HP big block NATURALLY ASPIRATED or you can just slap a supercharger on it and make 1000-1200 HP all using old technology (carburetors).

[seeking]

not all fans of imports are ricers, as a matter of fact i dont think i've seen one true ricer on this section of the board at all, so stop calling people ricers just for the sake of it, there are import fans just as into and knowledgable of cars as the domestic guys. Ricer is a disrespectful term, disrespecting members is against the rules.....so let this be a warning to everyone.

This goes for anybody disrespecting anyone, Im only using the term "ricer" as an example.

[Rough Chop Tom]

euro's. but jap cars own also with great reliablity, price and technology. american cars suck ass, but are good in a straight line - t.v show Top Gear shows me all the time that american cars eat shit.
My order: Euro, Jap, American

[Rough Chop Tom]

whats your def of stock because from my knowledge of automobiles there isnt ANY stock production car that can run 9's?????? tru that. the veyron runs 10.2's i believe. lmao at making a stock camaro in the 9's

[MauriSSio]

not all fans of imports are ricers, as a matter of fact i dont think i've seen one true ricer on this section of the board at all, so stop calling people ricers just for the sake of it, there are import fans just as into and knowledgable of cars as the domestic guys. Ricer is a disrespectful term, disrespecting members is against the rules.....so let this be a warning to everyone.

This goes for anybody disrespecting anyone, Im only using the term "ricer" as an example.

I wasnt calling anybody specifically a ricer.i just used the term pretty much like Bone uses the term "clone" in the Art Of War if you think about it.

[MauriSSio]

euro's. but jap cars own also with great reliablity, price and technology. american cars suck ass, but are good in a straight line - t.v show Top Gear shows me all the time that american cars eat shit.
My order: Euro, Jap, American

i think part of the reason why americans in general dont hold light agile cars (most modern cars dont meet these requirements,even "imports") in high reguards is because theres no where you can really drive like that (other than swerving in and out of traffic) without quickly getting cited by an officer or getting into an accident.If you go out onto a deserted road in the mountains youd most likely have to drive hella far just to get there and still,you cant see if another car is just around the corner or you risk even hitting a deer or other animals.
At least with straight line racing the variables are a bit more manageable. Also, speed and HP is what americans love, and the fastest way from one point to another is in a straight line.

[seeking]

I wasnt calling anybody specifically a ricer.i just used the term pretty much like Bone uses the term "clone" in the Art Of War if you think about it.


Nah, i knew what you were saying :cool:, that post wasnt to you, or anyone in specific, i just wanted to nip that all in the bud before anything got out of hand, thats all, some preventive maintenance if you will ;)

[seeking]

i think part of the reason why americans in general dont hold light agile cars (most modern cars dont meet these requirements,even "imports") in high reguards is because theres no where you can really drive like that (other than swerving in and out of traffic) without quickly getting cited by an officer or getting into an accident.If you go out onto a deserted road in the mountains youd most likely have to drive hella far just to get there and still,you cant see if another car is just around the corner or you risk even hitting a deer or other animals.
At least with straight line racing the variables are a bit more manageable. Also, speed and HP is what americans love, and the fastest way from one point to another is in a straight line.

very good points, and i agree to a point, but how fun would a roller coaster be if it just went in a straight line? the fun for me comes in the turns

[Mr Burns]

i think part of the reason why americans in general dont hold light agile cars (most modern cars dont meet these requirements,even "imports") in high reguards is because theres no where you can really drive like that (other than swerving in and out of traffic) without quickly getting cited by an officer or getting into an accident.If you go out onto a deserted road in the mountains youd most likely have to drive hella far just to get there and still,you cant see if another car is just around the corner or you risk even hitting a deer or other animals.
At least with straight line racing the variables are a bit more manageable. Also, speed and HP is what americans love, and the fastest way from one point to another is in a straight line.

i totally agree with this post
i love speed and hp. I also love my good friend torque.

[Rough Chop Tom]

i think part of the reason why americans in general dont hold light agile cars (most modern cars dont meet these requirements,even "imports") in high reguards is because theres no where you can really drive like that (other than swerving in and out of traffic) without quickly getting cited by an officer or getting into an accident.If you go out onto a deserted road in the mountains youd most likely have to drive hella far just to get there and still,you cant see if another car is just around the corner or you risk even hitting a deer or other animals.
At least with straight line racing the variables are a bit more manageable. Also, speed and HP is what americans love, and the fastest way from one point to another is in a straight line.
yes however roads are not in straight lines. from my experience me nd my m8s prefer superior handling to superior power. being able to take a hard corner at 100kmh instead of everyone else going 60kmh around it is far more accelerating imo than over taking sum punks. getting put back in your seat due to immense hp is great but gets very boring. now im not stating that all american cars cant handle or watever, im just saying that I and other people i know prefer handling to power.

[Rough Chop Tom]

very good points, and i agree to a point, but how fun would a roller coaster be if it just went in a straight line? the fun for me comes in the turns
tru this. /reps for nice sentence

[seeking]

on my way to work there is this one set of twisty highway and everyone slows down to like 40 mph, i go around it doing 80 with my GTI though. I get pissed when theres to much traffic and i cant get around them forcing me to go the 40 mph as well...it makes me feel like my trip to work was a waste :P

[memfrysrboi]

Supras and Skylines are nice cars,but i think its funny how ricers put them up on such a pedestal. If you smoke their cars and get into a discussion with them about cars it always ends up with, "well,i bet u cant beat a skyline or supra" LOL arent there any other fast jap cars out there??
Supras are nice cars but no way theyre averaging 45K LMAO heres the True Market Value for a 1996 Supra http://www.edmunds.com/used/1996/toyota/supra/12024/options.html
modded supras are nice but 1000HP ones are extremely uncommon,but i dont doubt theyre out there somewhere but then again,were living at a time where 1000HP isnt as hard to achieve as it used to be, its fairly easy to build a 800HP big block NATURALLY ASPIRATED or you can just slap a supercharger on it and make 1000-1200 HP all using old technology (carburetors).
even if that is true that "ricers" say that "well i bet u cant beat a skyline or supra", you have to understand that its true for the most part, in the tuner world the supra,nsx,skyline are the next best thing to owning a ferrari or lambo, but they can be made to blow the doors off of them with a fraction of the price, and yes there are many fast imports, everyone is always bashing hondas in such but i have a few friends with civic hatchs and 1 with a del sol that will smoke damn near everything that comes at them, ok and also thats the market value for a supra but ive never seen a MKIV supra go for that low,maybe one that has 2***** miles on it, go look around on ebay or supra forums and see how much supra owners are actually selling their cars for. there are a few 1000hp+ supras out there, most supras ive seen average between 600-800hp+, fairly easy to achieve

[MauriSSio]

even if that is true that "ricers" say that "well i bet u cant beat a skyline or supra", you have to understand that its true for the most part, in the tuner world the supra,nsx,skyline are the next best thing to owning a ferrari or lambo, but they can be made to blow the doors off of them with a fraction of the price, and yes there are many fast imports, everyone is always bashing hondas in such but i have a few friends with civic hatchs and 1 with a del sol that will smoke damn near everything that comes at them, ok and also thats the market value for a supra but ive never seen a MKIV supra go for that low,maybe one that has 2***** miles on it, go look around on ebay or supra forums and see how much supra owners are actually selling their cars for. there are a few 1000hp+ supras out there, most supras ive seen average between 600-800hp+, fairly easy to achieve

The TMV price is what people are ACTUALLY PAYING for that speific car.I put in Supra Turbo not the base model either. the average low buck big block ford puts out about 650-700 HP naturally aspirated so those numbers just arent as impressive as they used to be.whats funny is i never see Supras (especially high powered ones) at the track LOL it must be true theyre all dyno queens i guess. also i think u guys are taking ~The Fieldy~ post out of context, he said he can take a stock Camaro and make it run 9's for less than it would cost a supra to go 11's (if it ever gets off the dyno and makes it to the track!).

[MauriSSio]

there are a few 1000hp+ supras out there, most supras ive seen average between 600-800hp+, fairly easy to achieve

how bout this, can you post exactly how easy and what mods need to be done to "easily" achieve 800HP, prices included.

[Krayzie7th]

it will be easily achieve u have the money to do it, because its not cheap.

[MauriSSio]

everythings easy if you have money. Pretty much any level of HP is attainable in ANY car, the biggest variable is your bank account. I hate it when people talk about a certain car and say stuff like this guy was saying "600-800 HP is easily attainable" but yet dont know exactly how easy it is to attain it,probably because they dont actually own one.I did a quick search and found some cool facts like the bottom end is safe for about 600HP and the MAX power youd probably make using the stock turbos is about 400RWHP which isnt too bad,but then youd have to convert it to a larger single turbo. Now,with that being said,i like Supras a lil more than F-Bodies, all my friends had F-Bodies,even my ex-gf had a 96 Z28.
To me the Supra reminds me of a more expensive japanese F-Body that looks a lil better. 1 thing about F-Bodies though, most people way underestimate their handling capabilities,theyre not supercars by any means but theyll out handle and outgrip most cars out there.
If we want to talk about "easy power" we should be talking about 03' and 04" Mustang Cobras as well i think.

[memfrysrboi]

The TMV price is what people are ACTUALLY PAYING for that speific car.I put in Supra Turbo not the base model either. the average low buck big block ford puts out about 650-700 HP naturally aspirated so those numbers just arent as impressive as they used to be.whats funny is i never see Supras (especially high powered ones) at the track LOL it must be true theyre all dyno queens i guess. also i think u guys are taking ~The Fieldy~ post out of context, he said he can take a stock Camaro and make it run 9's for less than it would cost a supra to go 11's (if it ever gets off the dyno and makes it to the track!).
trust me, ive never seen a supra go for that low on ebay or supra forums, the people who are selling them for that low don't know any better, like i said if you want proof just go to supraforums or ebay to see how much their REALLY selling for, and i already said earlier that most supras are garage queens and are only driven every once in a while

[memfrysrboi]

I hate it when people talk about a certain car and say stuff like this guy was saying "600-800 HP is easily attainable"
i never said 600-800hp was easily obtainable, i said thats what most supra owners have

[Rough Chop Tom]

u can get massive power from a supra or a skyline gtr. but no fukn way is it cheap or easy to attain. people usualy over power supra's when they do decide to mod them, i was watching a t.v show here called performance car t.v and the dude said 4th gear at 50kmh (30mph) half throttle would wheel spin. however skyline gtr's r all good because ther awd and can actualy get the traction.

[MauriSSio]

i never said 600-800hp was easily obtainable, i said thats what most supra owners have

MOST Supra owners DO NOT have 600-800HP

[MauriSSio]

BTW you said 600-800 HP is, "fairly easy to achieve" yet you dont post exactly how easy it is,so quit talking out of your ass.

[memfrysrboi]

MOST Supra owners DO NOT have 600-800HP
ok let me change that, most 2zj-gte supra owners have 600-800hp, go to supra forums and prove me wrong

[memfrysrboi]

BTW you said 600-800 HP is, "fairly easy to achieve" yet you dont post exactly how easy it is,so quit talking out of your ass.
um it is fairly easy to achieve with a car that produces 320hp from the factory, in a lexus sc300 you can obtain 400hp with just a bolt on turbo and i/h/e, it has the 2jzge, same exact engine as the supra without the turbos, so im not talking out of my ass, im talking what I know, oh and im not talking about rwhp, im talking about hp at the flywheel

[MauriSSio]

ok let me change that, most 2zj-gte supra owners have 600-800hp, go to supra forums and prove me wrong

so out of 6977 total 93-98 Supras your saying AT LEAST 3500 are putting down 600-800HP? LOL. EAT yourself cuz ur FULL OF SHIT! you still havent put down just how easy it is to make that power,maybe because YOU DONT KNOW! you just read stuff here and there and preach it like you think its fact,yet you have no experience! what do you drive btw? Im not putting down Supras BTW theyre awsome cars,but YOU on the other hand, need to stop talking about things you dont know about! youre done son!

[memfrysrboi]

so out of 6977 total 93-98 Supras your saying AT LEAST 3500 are putting down 600-800HP? LOL. EAT yourself cuz ur FULL OF SHIT! you still havent put down just how easy it is to make that power,maybe because YOU DONT KNOW! you just read stuff here and there and preach it like you think its fact,yet you have no experience! what do you drive btw? Im not putting down Supras BTW theyre awsome cars,but YOU on the other hand, need to stop talking about things you dont know about! youre done son!
did i not say i was talking about hp at the flywheel, and yes because NOBODY builds supras to be to be slow or leave them stock, you will see VERY FEW supras stock, and it there are stock they probably put them back to stock just to sell, like i said go to supra forums and prove me wrong about supras owners, until you go there and prove me wrong be quiet

[MauriSSio]

um it is fairly easy to achieve with a car that produces 320hp from the factory, in a lexus sc300 you can obtain 400hp with just a bolt on turbo and i/h/e, it has the 2jzge, same exact engine as the supra without the turbos, so im not talking out of my ass, im talking what I know, oh and im not talking about rwhp, im talking about hp at the flywheel

come on MAN LOL thats such a cop out! "a bolt on turbo"? LOL let me add a "bolt on" turbo to my 533 stroker hmm.....probably would cost less anyways........hmmmm what if Krayzie7th added a "bolt on turbo" to his LT1 stroker...........once you start changing turbos its no harder or easier to do it on any other car as long as the shortblock can take it! LOL.

[MauriSSio]

did i not say i was talking about hp at the flywheel, and yes because NOBODY builds supras to be to be slow or leave them stock, you will see VERY FEW supras stock, and it there are stock they probably put them back to stock just to sell, like i said go to supra forums and prove me wrong about supras owners, until you go there and prove me wrong be quiet

i did go to Supra forums since you didnt have any info on how to modify one (yet somehow you know how easy it is to make 600-800HP) i had to look myself. Most people there are serious about modifying their cars so yes they put out a tremendous amount of power,but just go to 460ford.com or svtforums.com or other car sites,its pretty much the same thing,seems like EVERYBODY has oodles of power but it doesnt mean its the norm. How bout this,theres a guy that lives about a block from me,ive never talked to the dude but he has a really nice looking black MKIV Supra, ill go talk to him just for shits sometime this week and if hes putting 700HP (betwwen 600-800HP) at the flywheel, you win,i'll take pictures even LOL and maybe of one of me flipping u off as well......

[seeking]

i did go to Supra forums since you didnt have any info on how to modify one (yet somehow you know how easy it is to make 600-800HP) i had to look myself. Most people there are serious about modifying their cars so yes they put out a tremendous amount of power,but just go to 460ford.com or svtforums.com or other car sites,its pretty much the same thing,seems like EVERYBODY has oodles of power but it doesnt mean its the norm. How bout this,theres a guy that lives about a block from me,ive never talked to the dude but he has a really nice looking black MKIV Supra, ill go talk to him just for shits sometime this week and if hes putting 700HP (betwwen 600-800HP) at the flywheel, you win,i'll take pictures even LOL and maybe of one of me flipping u off as well......


you guys are talking about modifying these cars to create power so the average owner doesnt really count, the only owners that count in this debate are enthusiasts....The whole asking your neighbor if his point a to point b supra is powerful is null...you need to ask an enthusiast what thier supra runs...

[MauriSSio]

he said the average Supra OWNER makes 600-800, now its "Supra enthusiast?" where do you draw the line?how many mods need to be done to a car before you become an enthusiast?If he doesnt make 600-800HP he isnt considered an enthusiast?
anyways Ive been watching videos of Supras these last few days,mostly because of this thread and i like them more and more everyday,some of the videos are just crazy, so i guess my problem isnt the Supra,its just people that make statements without any actual experience. is 600-800 HP attainable? i bet it is,but im sure things like injectors,bigger turbo ($$$),intercooler/s, O2 sims, Throttle body, MAF, intake manifold ($$$), fuel pump, fuel lines, TUNING, and other things are never considered (and will most likely be a restriction long before you get to 800HP) when people make statements on how easy it is to put down this kind of power,and it seems these statements are always made by people who arent even close to being at the power level they act like their experts in.

[Rough Chop Tom]

i think he was just meaning that you can get 600-800 hp in a supra much easier than other cars.

[MauriSSio]

i guess it depends on what the conext of "easier" is, cuz i dont find it very easy coming up with that kind of money (including car) for 600-800HP.

[seeking]

he said the average Supra OWNER makes 600-800, now its "Supra enthusiast?" where do you draw the line?how many mods need to be done to a car before you become an enthusiast?If he doesnt make 600-800HP he isnt considered an enthusiast?


cmon man you knew what he meant, and you know what makes an ethusiast an enthusiast...if you really want to get technical though: the percentage of modified supras with 600-800 hp is FAR higher than the percentage of modified j-bodies with the same power...I dont have statistics but I do know, as well as you, and everyone else reading this, that people who buy supras (for the most part) are not buying it to get to the grocery store, they are buying it for power...the same cant be said for cameros, firebirds, mustangs, corvettes, or any other of the popular muscle car....muscle cars in america are still just an average everyday car..old and new...supras and skylines on the other hand, arent


anyways Ive been watching videos of Supras these last few days,mostly because of this thread and i like them more and more everyday,some of the videos are just crazy, so i guess my problem isnt the Supra,its just people that make statements without any actual experience. is 600-800 HP attainable? i bet it is,but im sure things like injectors,bigger turbo ($$$),intercooler/s, O2 sims, Throttle body, MAF, intake manifold ($$$), fuel pump, fuel lines, TUNING, and other things are never considered (and will most likely be a restriction long before you get to 800HP) when people make statements on how easy it is to put down this kind of power,and it seems these statements are always made by people who arent even close to being at the power level they act like their experts in.

i feel you on that, and like you said on the post above this one...easier is subjective..to some spending 10 grand is easier than having to engineer a turbo set up in a garage...but ask a mechanic and im sure he'll say the 10 grand is the harder option :cool:

[MauriSSio]

LOL i got this from another message forum from an actual Supra owner

"A MKIV in a stock or BPU formm is actually a really reliable car everyday, and really comfortable to drive around. Push much past that and all the little things start adding up, and the cars tend to be down for long periods of time due more to vendor tardiness( God only knows how many Supra upgrade kits have shipped on time, but I bet its a very very low number- like 1), lack of specific parts availability and what parts are available are priced higher than the market value of pure gold, and complexity fo the car making life rough. It is not uncommon to see a MK3 or IV down for months just to go single.

DSMs tend to be driven more because vendors will ship you parts before you sue them, the parts cost less and there are a ton of them out there. Most upgrades are easy enough for the "do-it-urselfer" to accomplish, with maybe a little help from the local DSM community. Bang for buck it is extremely hard to beat a DSM for a car to both drive and modify.

Honest opinion for someone like yourself that is not rich and is not a mechanic- go buy an EVO8. By far the best value for dollar spent out there."

as far as Camaros and Mustangs being an everyday thing,well ive always said that all along,which is why i dont own a Camaro, but not all muscle cars are at all common anymore, when was the last time you saw a Ford GT40, Ford Cobra, or even more regular cars like Dodge Challenger,Dodge Charger, Plymouth Satellite, Dodge Coronet, Ford Torino, Ford Fairlane , Mach 1's and countless others. prices for the older ones are skyrocketing. Anyways My argument has never been the scarcity of the cars, but the power they put out. The power you can get from a Supra or Skyline does not set it apart from the cheap muscle cars (or pony cars) that have been doing it for years and for less. Thats all i was trying to get across.

[memfrysrboi]

cmon man you knew what he meant, and you know what makes an ethusiast an enthusiast...if you really want to get technical though: the percentage of modified supras with 600-800 hp is FAR higher than the percentage of modified j-bodies with the same power...I dont have statistics but I do know, as well as you, and everyone else reading this, that people who buy supras (for the most part) are not buying it to get to the grocery store, they are buying it for power...the same cant be said for cameros, firebirds, mustangs, corvettes, or any other of the popular muscle car....muscle cars in america are still just an average everyday car..old and new...supras and skylines on the other hand, arent




thank you, exactly what i've been trying to say

[MauriSSio]

thank you, exactly what i've been trying to say

so basically you were saying Supras are cool because of their SCARCITY and looks (although looks are PURELY subjective, but i think they look better than MOST mustangs and camaros,but not all), NOT because they can achieve power levels already reached by cars older and less expensive. Ok that makes sense.Glad we settled that.

[memfrysrboi]

so basically you were saying Supras are cool because of their SCARCITY and looks (although looks are PURELY subjective, but i think they look better than MOST mustangs and camaros,but not all), NOT because they can achieve power levels already reached by cars older and less expensive. Ok that makes sense.Glad we settled that.
um no, i was saying exactly what seeking pointed out, people buy supras and skylines because their the best of their kind, they are bought to be built for high numbers, so with that being said, 90% of the people of have them with dust just about anything that come in their way

[Rough Chop Tom]

LOL i got this from another message forum from an actual Supra owner

"A MKIV in a stock or BPU formm is actually a really reliable car everyday, and really comfortable to drive around. Push much past that and all the little things start adding up, and the cars tend to be down for long periods of time due more to vendor tardiness( God only knows how many Supra upgrade kits have shipped on time, but I bet its a very very low number- like 1), lack of specific parts availability and what parts are available are priced higher than the market value of pure gold, and complexity fo the car making life rough. It is not uncommon to see a MK3 or IV down for months just to go single.

DSMs tend to be driven more because vendors will ship you parts before you sue them, the parts cost less and there are a ton of them out there. Most upgrades are easy enough for the "do-it-urselfer" to accomplish, with maybe a little help from the local DSM community. Bang for buck it is extremely hard to beat a DSM for a car to both drive and modify.

Honest opinion for someone like yourself that is not rich and is not a mechanic- go buy an EVO8. By far the best value for dollar spent out there."

as far as Camaros and Mustangs being an everyday thing,well ive always said that all along,which is why i dont own a Camaro, but not all muscle cars are at all common anymore, when was the last time you saw a Ford GT40, Ford Cobra, or even more regular cars like Dodge Challenger,Dodge Charger, Plymouth Satellite, Dodge Coronet, Ford Torino, Ford Fairlane , Mach 1's and countless others. prices for the older ones are skyrocketing. Anyways My argument has never been the scarcity of the cars, but the power they put out. The power you can get from a Supra or Skyline does not set it apart from the cheap muscle cars (or pony cars) that have been doing it for years and for less. Thats all i was trying to get across.
iv got an evo4 :P shit is prity quick and just so fun to drive:-D

[MauriSSio]

um no, i was saying exactly what seeking pointed out, people buy supras and skylines because their the best of their kind, they are bought to be built for high numbers, so with that being said, 90% of the people of have them with dust just about anything that come in their way

Uh oh, youre pulling more numbers out of your ass again, how many more do you got in there son? I stick by my statement. Read it again because it makes all the sense in the world.

"so basically you were saying Supras are cool because of their SCARCITY and looks (although looks are PURELY subjective, but i think they look better than MOST mustangs and camaros,but not all), NOT because they can achieve power levels already reached by cars older and less expensive. Ok that makes sense.Glad we settled that."

The Supra,while cool, doesnt do anything that hasnt been done MANY MANY TIMES by less expensive cars out there.

[seeking]

i dont think there is any arguing about the fact that other cars can be modified to be as powerful or even more powerful than a supra/skyline and for less money, but the majority of those domestics that are at that level are outweighed by thousands and thousands of the same car that are NOT at that level...

i dont have statistics but its no secret that the majority of supra owners make good power while the majority of j-body owners dont

[memfrysrboi]

Uh oh, youre pulling more numbers out of your ass again, how many more do you got in there son? I stick by my statement. Read it again because it makes all the sense in the world.

"so basically you were saying Supras are cool because of their SCARCITY and looks (although looks are PURELY subjective, but i think they look better than MOST mustangs and camaros,but not all), NOT because they can achieve power levels already reached by cars older and less expensive. Ok that makes sense.Glad we settled that."

The Supra,while cool, doesnt do anything that hasnt been done MANY MANY TIMES by less expensive cars out there.
so your saying that im lying then??how am i pulling numbers out of my ass? oh and I thought u have been watching supra videos?? well if u have been watching you should see why I say some of the things i'm saying

[MauriSSio]

i dont think there is any arguing about the fact that other cars can be modified to be as powerful or even more powerful than a supra/skyline and for less money, but the majority of those domestics that are at that level are outweighed by thousands and thousands of the same car that are NOT at that level...

i dont have statistics but its no secret that the majority of supra owners make good power while the majority of j-body owners dont

you keep referring to a j-Body, just curious but whats that?
anyways as for your statements,thats like saying the amount of Supras at the 600-800HP (or even 1000HP) level are far outweighed by the amount of dumbestics at that level, so an argument that the dumbestics are better performing cars can even be made,but im not even going to go there. What a screwed up way to have a lopsided discussion. Like ive been saying all along, Supras are nice and well built cars, but the power level you can achieve with them IS NOT what makes them special, because the dumbestic crowd has already been doing it for years and will continue doing so and most likely for less money. From a mechanical and price standpoint, the Supra has ZERO advantage, so all thats really left is looks (subjective but i like the way it looks) and scarcity, which doesnt really make a difference if the subject all along has been performance (the whole 600-800HP)

[seeking]

you keep referring to a j-Body, just curious but whats that?


oops my bad, i meant f-body, j-bodies are the newer front wheel cars like cavaliers (throw up)


anyways as for your statements,thats like saying the amount of Supras at the 600-800HP (or even 1000HP) level are far outweighed by the amount of dumbestics at that level, so an argument that the dumbestics are better performing cars can even be made,but im not even going to go there.


i think you got it backwards, what i was saying is that there are far more powerful supras in relation to non powerful supras than there are powerful mustangs, cameros, etc in relation to non powerful ones


What a screwed up way to have a lopsided discussion. Like ive been saying all along, Supras are nice and well built cars, but the power level you can achieve with them IS NOT what makes them special, because the dumbestic crowd has already been doing it for years and will continue doing so and most likely for less money. From a mechanical and price standpoint, the Supra has ZERO advantage, so all thats really left is looks (subjective but i like the way it looks) and scarcity, which doesnt really make a difference if the subject all along has been performance (the whole 600-800HP)

to be honest i dont even know what we are debating about anymore

[btnhdust]

its all about japanese cars. american got some good cars but japanese all the way!

[runnin_wit_da_ak47]

I respect all three car catagories.. But I voted for Jap... Don't get me wrong here, America makes some outstanding machines.. well they did for there day. Now for those cars back in the 60's and 70's.. the people who own those cars are big time car guys who could tell you everything there is to know about those cars.... then you have your rich guys.. who don't know shit, but got the money so they brought it..but then want to brag about the car.... the same goes with todays society with american muscle car owners.. The younger guys you see driving the camero's and mustangs today.. it seems like all they can do is talk about how fast there car is etc.. but if you ask them 1 mechnically question about the car, they don't know shit.. where else a guy with a.. lets say Evo.. could tell you tons of mechanically shit about the car... seriously.. this guy who was 25.. didn't even know how to check his oil on his brand new 2006 Mustang that daddy bought.. . but all in all.. I give it to the Japs.. a 300hp 4 cylinder 4 door sadan (EVO).. wow is that a fast machine.. America, you guys make some crazy beast machines also, but your best was decades ago.. after emission laws, American built cars lost its touch.. Euro.. your just luxery.. You guys are comming up with the VW.. but where have you been for the last 40 years??

[Krayzie7th]

^300hp 4 cylinder with forced induction not N/A.I think americans cars are great right now i mean look at the z06 505 hp N/A gets mpg on the mid 20'sand faster then most exotics right now.

[MauriSSio]

i think crash standards fucked up the auto industry.I like the styling of the older cars, just know to drive at your own risk.as far as modern cars go,i dont think any one maker comes out on top,its all debateable.

[Rough Chop Tom]

I respect all three car catagories.. But I voted for Jap... Don't get me wrong here, America makes some outstanding machines.. well they did for there day. Now for those cars back in the 60's and 70's.. the people who own those cars are big time car guys who could tell you everything there is to know about those cars.... then you have your rich guys.. who don't know shit, but got the money so they brought it..but then want to brag about the car.... the same goes with todays society with american muscle car owners.. The younger guys you see driving the camero's and mustangs today.. it seems like all they can do is talk about how fast there car is etc.. but if you ask them 1 mechnically question about the car, they don't know shit.. where else a guy with a.. lets say Evo.. could tell you tons of mechanically shit about the car... seriously.. this guy who was 25.. didn't even know how to check his oil on his brand new 2006 Mustang that daddy bought.. . but all in all.. I give it to the Japs.. a 300hp 4 cylinder 4 door sadan (EVO).. wow is that a fast machine.. America, you guys make some crazy beast machines also, but your best was decades ago.. after emission laws, American built cars lost its touch.. Euro.. your just luxery.. You guys are comming up with the VW.. but where have you been for the last 40 years??
yea not to mention they are light as a mofo and awd with active yaw control (ayc). my evo handles better than it accelerates tho if you know what i mean.

[123456]

Japanese cars will last up until you get into a wreck going more then 5 miles per hour, and compleltely annihalate the frame.

/see's 20,30,40,50,60 year old domestics on the road all teh time.

my uncle has a 92 camry that he got into an accident 4 times with....it got 235,000 miles on it today and it still drives like it's brand new

he's a mechanic so he knows how to take care of shit....and he knows 90% of cars inside and out. he's admitted that american cars are more powerful but he says that they're a bitch with all the problems they got and they don't last long.

so if you want power and speed, go ahead with the muscle cars. but reliability and even speed, japanese.

[MauriSSio]

japanese cars are very reliable if used for their intended purpose, but it seems the 4 cylinder versions cant handle much HP before they start tossing pistons out of the block. (except maybe Evos.) Evos are cool,but i think the AWD gives their owners a false sense of security,every year by my house i see some kind of AWD car smashed against a tree when its raining that was driven by somebody who thought you cant lose control in an AWD car.

[Mr Burns]

^i agree with what you said about the false sense of security. Every winter here it seems like all of the cars that are stuck/flipped over/wrapped around a tree, are AWD cars. and I think it is because a lot of people think that it will always have good traction. But what many don't realize is that if there is ice under all 4 wheels it won't matter if u have AWD.

[Rough Chop Tom]

^i agree with what you said about the false sense of security. Every winter here it seems like all of the cars that are stuck/flipped over/wrapped around a tree, are AWD cars. and I think it is because a lot of people think that it will always have good traction. But what many don't realize is that if there is ice under all 4 wheels it won't matter if u have AWD.they should of pushed the button to change it from tarmac mode to snow mode:-D

[Rare]

japanese cars are very reliable if used for their intended purpose, but it seems the 4 cylinder versions cant handle much HP before they start tossing pistons out of the block. (except maybe Evos.) Evos are cool,but i think the AWD gives their owners a false sense of security,every year by my house i see some kind of AWD car smashed against a tree when its raining that was driven by somebody who thought you cant lose control in an AWD car.


Exactly. Some people think that just because a car is AWD that they can tackle a turn doing 40mph+. It truely does gives people a false sense of security. Good throttle control can make a difference in crashing or not. And about 4 cylinders, it's true. Just get a V6 or V8, much more reliable when modifying.

[MauriSSio]

yea not to mention they are light as a mofo and awd with active yaw control (ayc). my evo handles better than it accelerates tho if you know what i mean.

depends on your definition of "light". With a curb weight of 3,338 i dont think its very light. Not heavy by any means either though.i would say its "mid-weight"

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=109126/pageId=68445

[Rough Chop Tom]

well my evo which is an 1996 evo4 (still 280hp stock although im sitting on about 300 at the mo, and has all the evo goodies) is 1250kg which is 2755pounds. The newer evos are more heavy but i guess we were talking about the newer ones so yea id say mid-weight for the newest models. I havnt lookd at the specs for the evo X yet, aparently ther not using the 4g63 anymore :no:, and that they dont no if its mod friendly. but im sure that thing is fucking quick as.

[Rough Chop Tom]

Exactly. Some people think that just because a car is AWD that they can tackle a turn doing 40mph+. It truely does gives people a false sense of security. Good throttle control can make a difference in crashing or not. And about 4 cylinders, it's true. Just get a V6 or V8, much more reliable when modifying. i think youl find the 4g63 to be more reliable, its been proven as such a great platform.

[runnin_wit_da_ak47]

^300hp 4 cylinder with forced induction not N/A.I think americans cars are great right now i mean look at the z06 505 hp N/A gets mpg on the mid 20'sand faster then most exotics right now.

Your right.. but with about $2,000 worth of parts (not even).. You can almost double the HP.. I seen some 550 HP Evo's (in Magazine's) with still more room to upgrade....look it up online.. But yea like I said.. I'm a car guy all around.. from Shark Body Corvettes.. To the orginal Shelby 500's.. (60's).. Toyota Supra's (Hulk Hogans Supra pushes well over 1,000 HP).. To the Evo's.. I respect all types of cars... I wish American musle car enthusiast would respect the Japenese cars... They make some fast ass cars that can compete.. and in some cases out run an American Muscle... And yea with the AWD issue... people need to realize that there's a difference between AWD, and 4WD.. and you really need to know how to use the AWD.. either way your gonna spin on ICE no matter what you drive

[Rough Chop Tom]

Your right.. but with about $2,000 worth of parts (not even).. You can almost double the HP.. I seen some 550 HP Evo's (in Magazine's) with still more room to upgrade....look it up online.. But yea like I said.. I'm a car guy all around.. from Shark Body Corvettes.. To the orginal Shelby 500's.. (60's).. Toyota Supra's (Hulk Hogans Supra pushes well over 1,000 HP).. To the Evo's.. I respect all types of cars... I wish American musle car enthusiast would respect the Japenese cars... They make some fast ass cars that can compete.. and in some cases out run an American Muscle... And yea with the AWD issue... people need to realize that there's a difference between AWD, and 4WD.. and you really need to know how to use the AWD.. either way your gonna spin on ICE no matter what you drivelol whats the diference between awd and 4wd lmao? they call them awd instead of 4wd because they dont want people buying them to think ther big heavy slow 4wd off roaders.

[runnin_wit_da_ak47]

lol whats the diference between awd and 4wd lmao? they call them awd instead of 4wd because they dont want people buying them to think ther big heavy slow 4wd off roaders.

Look it up

[Rough Chop Tom]

giv me the link

[runnin_wit_da_ak47]

Oh.. and to touch base a little on who actually makes better or safer cars... MUSTANGS are not the safest cars.. there not properly built... The frame (which determines the strength of the car) of the mustang is very poorly assembled...All mustangs get built on the same assembly line... Every time they change the body style they re-engineer the equipment on the assembly line to make that new body style, or generation as some call it... well usually after about a year of manufactering the same car over and over, the equipment that puts together the frame of the car needs to be repositioned (usually a few inches or so).. well..Ford does not do this..they actually allow the frame to be off by a few inches.. well no big deal right?? Well when you take your car to get an alignment and stuff like that... Those shops go by the frame position that the mustangs are SUPPOSE to have.... not knowing that the frame of the car was actually built 1,2, even 5 inches off..... How do I know this?? I'm a proffesional auto body repairer.. Ford sends us the Frame specs of the mustang evertime they make a new body style.. (which isn't often)... Its amazing how half ass those cars are manufactered...

[runnin_wit_da_ak47]

giv me the link

LoL, look it up yourself man... The internet can be used for educational purposes as well..:rolleyes:

[Rough Chop Tom]

"Difference to full time 4WD is that a "4-low" setting is not available in AWD cars. Due to the lack of "low range" AWD vehicles are much less capable in off-road settings than full time 4WD vehicles, but work perfectly well on-road."

lol in context of what you were saying "And yea with the AWD issue... people need to realize that there's a difference between AWD, and 4WD.. and you really need to know how to use the AWD" there is NO differences except a low range.

[runnin_wit_da_ak47]

"Difference to full time 4WD is that a "4-low" setting is not available in AWD cars. Due to the lack of "low range" AWD vehicles are much less capable in off-road settings than full time 4WD vehicles, but work perfectly well on-road."

lol in context of what you were saying "And yea with the AWD issue... people need to realize that there's a difference between AWD, and 4WD.. and you really need to know how to use the AWD" there is NO differences except a low range.

Um... you just said there was no difference.. then you pointed out the difference

[Rough Chop Tom]

that difference dosnt apply to what you were implied m8, all a low range does is simply provide more torque which doesn't relate to needing to know how to use AWD instead of 4WD.

[Krayzie7th]

Your right.. but with about $2,000 worth of parts (not even).. You can almost double the HP.. I seen some 550 HP Evo's (in Magazine's) with still more room to upgrade....look it up online.. But yea like I said.. I'm a car guy all around.. from Shark Body Corvettes.. To the orginal Shelby 500's.. (60's).. Toyota Supra's (Hulk Hogans Supra pushes well over 1,000 HP).. To the Evo's.. I respect all types of cars... I wish American musle car enthusiast would respect the Japenese cars... They make some fast ass cars that can compete.. and in some cases out run an American Muscle... And yea with the AWD issue... people need to realize that there's a difference between AWD, and 4WD.. and you really need to know how to use the AWD.. either way your gonna spin on ICE no matter what you drive
yea thats some advantage of having a turbo from factory, but the thing is it starts getting more expensive then 2gs once u have to upgrade turbo to produce more power.But like u i respect a well built car, im a muscle car guy but i would like to have a evo or a supra 2 and yes a lot of people do think awd n 4wd is the same thing.

[~The Guyver~]

/notices american cars winning

/notices LS1 being more in demand then an evo engine

/notices they are cheaper, and more powerful.

/notices the new camaro getting 30 mpg and STILL smoking all evo's.

case closed.thnx.

[Rough Chop Tom]

/notice 4g63 is 2litre

[~The Guyver~]

/notices the new camaro is like 6 and still gets better gas mileage AND smokes it with no turbo chargers.thnx.

[Rough Chop Tom]

/notices it wouldnt get beter mileage when driving it fast.
/didnt realise u compare 1 turbo charger to 4litres

[Krayzie7th]

notices that when u want power you go with a v8.

[~The Guyver~]

/notices it wouldnt get beter mileage when driving it fast.
/didnt realise u compare 1 turbo charger to 4litres

If you care about gas mileage, dont drive it fast. If you care about speed, then it will own any evo ever. Without a turbo, evo's are nothing.Just like any over 4 banger.Ive seen turbo charged neon's going as fast as turbo charged evo's. With a turbo, they still cant win BUT you can always add a turbo to a v8 to, just for added pwnage.

[seeking]

no replacement for displacement

[memfrysrboi]

If you care about gas mileage, dont drive it fast. If you care about speed, then it will own any evo ever. Without a turbo, evo's are nothing.Just like any over 4 banger.Ive seen turbo charged neon's going as fast as turbo charged evo's. With a turbo, they still cant win BUT you can always add a turbo to a v8 to, just for added pwnage.
you say that like just every evo is slow,"it will own any evo ever" um yea right. the new camaro aint about shit, MANY more people are anticipating the arrival of the GTR especially since its the first skyline to come to America, and yes turbo neons-SRT4's are fast, no secret there

[Rough Chop Tom]

^yea bro that new gtr looks sweet ay, dosnt the top spec hav like 450-500hp stock or sumthn? /senses lots of rich asians crashing and dieing when they get ther hands on one.

I luv u ~The Fieldy~

[memfrysrboi]

^yea bro that new gtr looks sweet ay, dosnt the top spec hav like 450-500hp stock or sumthn? /senses lots of rich asians crashing and dieing when they get ther hands on one.

I luv u ~The Fieldy~
450 stock, all wheel drive,seven speed transmission, notices GTR will shit on new camaro and anything else America puts out lol

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0601_900_Nissan_Skyline+2008_Nissan_Skyline_GTR+Fu ll_Driver_Side_View.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:Zoom('http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0601_900_Nissan_Skyline+2008_Nissan_Skyline_GTR+Fu ll_Driver_Side_View.jpg',900,590))

[Rough Chop Tom]

yup not to mention its nissan which means itl go forever! where bouts do u live bro?

[memfrysrboi]

yup not to mention its nissan which means itl go forever! where bouts do u live bro?
yup jus like every japanese car, i live in memphis, tennessee:(

[Rough Chop Tom]

cool man, shows ur not biased. yea jap cars own, but i still like american and euro cars heaps, all have ups and downs

[memfrysrboi]

^^^ same here, like cars from all three, just mostly japs

[~The Guyver~]

you say that like just every evo is slow,"it will own any evo ever" um yea right. the new camaro aint about shit, MANY more people are anticipating the arrival of the GTR especially since its the first skyline to come to America, and yes turbo neons-SRT4's are fast, no secret there


no there not all slow. When they have 100,000 sunk under the hood, them bitchs can haul ass. But the Majority are slow, and the majority wont touch a camaro. And there are many more people who are caught up in the fast and furious hype these days. Fact is I can make an LS1 run fast as hell for ALOT cheaper then an evo. Its funny I was at street car chaos the other weekend.One of the biggest drag racing events around, and not one of the little jap boys would race me :(

[~The Guyver~]

450 stock, all wheel drive,seven speed transmission, notices GTR will shit on new camaro and anything else America puts out lol

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0601_900_Nissan_Skyline+2008_Nissan_Skyline_GTR+Fu ll_Driver_Side_View.jpg (http://javascript<b></b>:Zoom('http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/coupes/0601_900_Nissan_Skyline+2008_Nissan_Skyline_GTR+Fu ll_Driver_Side_View.jpg',900,590))

Roflmao. Wasnt it one of you saying its illegal for them to make a car with that much power? But whatever I cant Lie. I love nissans.ESPECIALLY older ones, but this thing will not even come CLOSE to touching the new camaro. But again, its turbo charged and the regular camaro isnt. If u wanna add a turbo charger to the camaro then it will be even more ownage.

Funny the 76 el camino in our shop right now still has the engine it came with from the factory, and it still runs, and looking at the streets you rarely see any japanese car older then a 92. Thats because they are built so flimsy, that a 15 mph crash demolishes the frame.It doesnt matter how long the engine can possibly last, when the bodys cant last for shit.

But I must admit that nissan is pretty sexy.If people would leave them alone, and not rice them out they would be cool to see on the street.

I saw a 4th gen camaro riced to hell cruising around. I was so pissed it looked fuckin retarded. Big ass wing, and a million stickers.It was fucking ridiculous.

[Rough Chop Tom]

Roflmao. Wasnt it one of you saying its illegal for them to make a car with that much power? But whatever I cant Lie. I love nissans.ESPECIALLY older ones, but this thing will not even come CLOSE to touching the new camaro. But again, its turbo charged and the regular camaro isnt. If u wanna add a turbo charger to the camaro then it will be even more ownage.

Funny the 76 el camino in our shop right now still has the engine it came with from the factory, and it still runs, and looking at the streets you rarely see any japanese car older then a 92. Thats because they are built so flimsy, that a 15 mph crash demolishes the frame.It doesnt matter how long the engine can possibly last, when the bodys cant last for shit.

But I must admit that nissan is pretty sexy.If people would leave them alone, and not rice them out they would be cool to see on the street.

I saw a 4th gen camaro riced to hell cruising around. I was so pissed it looked fuckin retarded. Big ass wing, and a million stickers.It was fucking ridiculous.It's not a law. It's a gentlemen's agreement between Japanese car companies not to advertise over 280PS. IIRC, Honda first broke the agreement by advertising their Legend (RL) at 300PS.

[Krayzie7th]

yea the new GTR is nice but it is going to cost 60grand compare to the camaro on its 20's and probably about the same hp. GM hasn't said how much power the camaro is going to have.

[Rough Chop Tom]

i dont no about the camaros, but the gtrs hold ther value real well.

[Krayzie7th]

^^im sure they do but a lot of people are comparing the GTR to the camaro when its more on the corvette level.

[memfrysrboi]

yea the new GTR is nice but it is going to cost 60grand compare to the camaro on its 20's and probably about the same hp. GM hasn't said how much power the camaro is going to have.
your right thats because when the new camaro hits the streets your gonna see 50 billion of them just like the newer mustangs lmao, their EVERYWHERE, and then most of the people who buy them are not gonna buy them for the power, their gonna do just like they did with the charger,300c,and magnum and throw some 24's+ on it, you will prob rarely see the GTR

[memfrysrboi]

Roflmao. Wasnt it one of you saying its illegal for them to make a car with that much power? But whatever I cant Lie. I love nissans.ESPECIALLY older ones, but this thing will not even come CLOSE to touching the new camaro. But again, its turbo charged and the regular camaro isnt. If u wanna add a turbo charger to the camaro then it will be even more ownage.

Funny the 76 el camino in our shop right now still has the engine it came with from the factory, and it still runs, and looking at the streets you rarely see any japanese car older then a 92. Thats because they are built so flimsy, that a 15 mph crash demolishes the frame.It doesnt matter how long the engine can possibly last, when the bodys cant last for shit.

But I must admit that nissan is pretty sexy.If people would leave them alone, and not rice them out they would be cool to see on the street.

I saw a 4th gen camaro riced to hell cruising around. I was so pissed it looked fuckin retarded. Big ass wing, and a million stickers.It was fucking ridiculous.
will not come close to touching the new camaro?? this thing will shit on it, the only thing i can see messing with it is the new vette, and why do you keep saying that??? i see TONS of imports older than 92 on the streets, ive seen NUMEROUS hondas and other imports from wrecks,stripped,theft recovery and everything in the book and still restored to beauty, japanese cars will last forever case closed

[Krayzie7th]

oh man i hope they dont start putting 24s on a freaking camaro.

[~The Guyver~]

Lmao.Roflmao. An LS1 engine is sought after WAY more then any evo.

Lets see, there are evo's with fucking LS1 SWAPS. How many camaro's do you see with evo engines in them? None because it wuld be fucking stupid to swap an engine with a less powerful engine.

And the new camaro has been one of the most anticipated car since they stopped making them in 2002. Yea it will be everywhere like the mustang because they are fast and are about as expensive as the new mustang.

And Ive seen unibody japanese trucks BENDING from somebody jumping in the bed.Kinda defeats the purpose doesnt it? Those bodys are JUNK. ESPECIALLY honda's. The only ones that can really hold up are older nissan's and toyotas but al lthe toyotas around america where built in america.

[memfrysrboi]

Lmao.Roflmao. An LS1 engine is sought after WAY more then any evo.

Lets see, there are evo's with fucking LS1 SWAPS. How many camaro's do you see with evo engines in them? None because it wuld be fucking stupid to swap an engine with a less powerful engine.

And the new camaro has been one of the most anticipated car since they stopped making them in 2002. Yea it will be everywhere like the mustang because they are fast and are about as expensive as the new mustang.

And Ive seen unibody japanese trucks BENDING from somebody jumping in the bed.Kinda defeats the purpose doesnt it? Those bodys are JUNK. ESPECIALLY honda's. The only ones that can really hold up are older nissan's and toyotas but al lthe toyotas around america where built in america.
who said anything about evo engines being sought after????? now if u wana talk about engines that everyone wants, all b, h, f, k series honda acura engines, especially the k20, people are swapping those into anything and everything, all of those engines are getting so rare now, all of those are way more sought after than the LS1, why you think theres so much honda theft?? to take a joy ride around the block??, hell naw, and your right, the new camaro will be everywhere because its cheap, and that means there isn't going to be anything special about them, and im through arguing about japanese frames and bodys, and what will last and what wont, whatever you say

[MauriSSio]

the GTR's scaricty will not be good for their aftermarket, so itll probably be about as expen$$$ive as a Supra to soup up,if you see that as a good thing, then you must love wasting money.

The GTR is nice (but it kinda looks like the new Accord to me so i guess itll just get lost in traffic and parking lots at the mall) and the specs look good, but whats so special about it if you have to pay probably $50,000 or more for it? Theres nothing special about having to pay that much money for only 450HP

[memfrysrboi]

the GTR's scaricty will not be good for their aftermarket, so itll probably be about as expen$$$ive as a Supra to soup up,if you see that as a good thing, then you must love wasting money.

The GTR is nice (but it kinda looks like the new Accord to me so i guess itll just get lost in traffic and parking lots at the mall) and the specs look good, but whats so special about it if you have to pay probably $50,000 or more for it? Theres nothing special about having to pay that much money for only 450HP
when the supra first came out it was $40,000+ and it only came with 320

[Rough Chop Tom]

Lmao.Roflmao. An LS1 engine is sought after WAY more then any evo.

Lets see, there are evo's with fucking LS1 SWAPS. How many camaro's do you see with evo engines in them? None because it wuld be fucking stupid to swap an engine with a less powerful engine.

And the new camaro has been one of the most anticipated car since they stopped making them in 2002. Yea it will be everywhere like the mustang because they are fast and are about as expensive as the new mustang.

And Ive seen unibody japanese trucks BENDING from somebody jumping in the bed.Kinda defeats the purpose doesnt it? Those bodys are JUNK. ESPECIALLY honda's. The only ones that can really hold up are older nissan's and toyotas but al lthe toyotas around america where built in america.
thers 1 evo with an ls1 in it, not evo's. and if u look at the comments on youtube or other forums they all say ther fukn idiots for replacing a 4g63 with a ls1.

[Krayzie7th]

actually there is another evo with an ls1 swap also there is an sti with and ls1 swap also.

[memfrysrboi]

^^^ ok 3 cars with ls1's lmao

[Rough Chop Tom]

^yea and none of them would b faster than heaps of stis and evos out ther

[Mr Burns]

Yeah!! American Cars Are Back In The Lead!

[Krayzie7th]

^yea and none of them would b faster than heaps of stis and evos out ther

im sure the white evo is going to be pretty fast its a built ls1 all forged with a procharger so for them sure its going to be fast.

[~The Guyver~]

who said anything about evo engines being sought after????? now if u wana talk about engines that everyone wants, all b, h, f, k series honda acura engines, especially the k20, people are swapping those into anything and everything, all of those engines are getting so rare now, all of those are way more sought after than the LS1, why you think theres so much honda theft?? to take a joy ride around the block??, hell naw, and your right, the new camaro will be everywhere because its cheap, and that means there isn't going to be anything special about them, and im through arguing about japanese frames and bodys, and what will last and what wont, whatever you say



Are you an idiot? Im sorry this was a good argument until this ignorance was spewed.THe LS1 is one of the most sought after racing engines around. People arent swapping honda engines for anything, except with maybe other honda engines. Ive seen S10's with ls1's, mustangs, honda's,dodges, pretty much anyhting you can name somebody has stuck an LS1 in it, because LS1's are powerhouses.Kid I work in a shop, i work on domestic and import alike. Do you know how hard it is to save a friggin japanese car after its been crashed? Trust me ill work on anyhting if im getting paid. As much as I dont prefer japanese cars, i dont mind working on them. The new camaro will be more powerful, has an LS2 that has more power then any evo engine, AND gets 30 mpg.

[~The Guyver~]

thers 1 evo with an ls1 in it, not evo's. and if u look at the comments on youtube or other forums they all say ther fukn idiots for replacing a 4g63 with a ls1.


I dont care what people say about ls1's.Look around they are by FAR more sought after then any 4g63. and actually I was all into building my own 4wd LS1 swap, until I started seeing them at the track.Its like the fuckin fad now. Take them light ass 4wd cars and put big powerful engines in them. Ive personally seen a few with my own eyes. There is far more then three.Actually I found a site selling parts just for converting those cars to make them able to hold big v8's. Again, dont see to many camaro's, mustangs, anything with evo engines.

[Krayzie7th]

^^i agree with u ls1 is pretty much on anything this days i even seen it on a small airplane.But the new camaro is not going to have and ls2 thats just the concept most likely is going to have the new ls3 that is coming on out the on the new c7 vettes.

[~The Guyver~]

^yea and none of them would b faster than heaps of stis and evos out ther


wtf? why doy ou think people make the swaps? Because LS1's are faster then 4g63's. THere are by far more faster LS1's then there are evo's.Im not saying there arent fast ones out there.Actually i saw my first 11 second evo today at the track. IT was the only one there and had a shit load sunk into it, but they are around. BUT while at the track today there where at LEAST 20 LS1's running 12 seconds or better with only a fraction under the hood.

[~The Guyver~]

^^i agree with u ls1 is pretty much on anything this days i even seen it on a small airplane.But the new camaro is not going to have and ls2 thats just the concept most likely is going to have the new ls3 that is coming on out the on the new c7 vettes.


oh for real? I thought that the LS2 was the one they where going to stick with. From what I read they where going to have that, plus a turbo charged model. But they are still supposed to get like 30 mpg and thats insane. Im still waiting to see the LSX

[Krayzie7th]

yea the ls2 is pretty much its at the end of its cycle just like the ls7 they are going to be replace by brand new engines, one being the ls3 that are found on the new vettes and they still havent said the other.yea there is rumos about a supercharge version which would be freaking sweet!.
The ls3 is 430hp 6.2liter the new vettes are putting down 380rwhp through and automatic bone stock, i want to see the numbers though a 6speed probably around 400rwhp.

[seeking]

im not sure why there is even an argument about performance. Domestics will always have better performance its what tehy are known for..its thier specialty, where as jap cars will always be more reliable, and euro's will always have the better styling (imo)

[memfrysrboi]

Are you an idiot? Im sorry this was a good argument until this ignorance was spewed.THe LS1 is one of the most sought after racing engines around. People arent swapping honda engines for anything, except with maybe other honda engines. Ive seen S10's with ls1's, mustangs, honda's,dodges, pretty much anyhting you can name somebody has stuck an LS1 in it, because LS1's are powerhouses.Kid I work in a shop, i work on domestic and import alike. Do you know how hard it is to save a friggin japanese car after its been crashed? Trust me ill work on anyhting if im getting paid. As much as I dont prefer japanese cars, i dont mind working on them. The new camaro will be more powerful, has an LS2 that has more power then any evo engine, AND gets 30 mpg.
lmafao, NO are YOU an idiot??? one, i have never heard anybody on steal a car for their LS1, but for their K20,B16,B18 and so on i have heard thousands of stories, you must not know that every year that acura has made the integra is on the most stolen cars in america list along with the civic si, people arent swapping honda engines for anything???? you must be crazy lol, especially the kseries, it is being put into everything now, lotus's,mini's and so on, oh yea it couldnt be to hard to save a japanese car considering their on the road more than any other car, and the new camaro won't be shit at all,nothing special, you will see a billion of them on the road just like mustangs,chargers,magnums and 300c's especially considered how cheap they are, and people WILL throw some D's on that bitch, most of the people who buy them are not going to be car enthusiast, their just going to think of it as another car they can throw some huge rims on, unlike the new GTR everybody who buys one will be a car enthusiast and yes the LS2 has more power than an evo engine duh, but i havent said anything about the evo engine, im talking about the GTR which will not even be in the same league as the camaro......thank you

[Krayzie7th]

^^thats what im saying stop comparing the GTR to the camaro they aint on the same league all though the camaro is pretty much going to have the same if not more hp then the skyline.And i never really heard of people stealing those engines really only some dumb teens that can afford better engines for there little hondas.

[Rough Chop Tom]

memfrysrboi is right about honda engines geting swapped allot. ppl put b18c's in so many different cars here in my country. ther such a good engine, bulletproof 200hp 1.8litre n.a and can fit into heaps of cars. they definitly are very sought after. however im not sure about all this ls1 talk because of course im not from the usa, im from new zealand where we hav literaly no muscle cars about the place except for the owners who collect them. all i no is that japan make sum damn awesome cars with heaps of potential and im all for them. and from what i hear on other car forums is that american cars r shit in REAL racing i.e racing that involves turning the steering wheel both right and left. drags r soo boring, prity much because thers not much new to discover about it and that prity much all the possible times hav been done before. i realy dont care about getting put back in ur seat, once youv done it once youv done it a thousand times! track racing is usualy more to do with the actual driver and not how many hps u hav (dont get me wrong u still need sum skill to drag )

[MauriSSio]

ppl put b18c's in so many different cars here in my country. ther such a good engine, bulletproof 200hp 1.8litre n.a

I guess that depends on what you mean by "bulletproof". What does bullet proof mean to you? to me bullet proof means being able to handle AT LEAST 600-700HP. Im not sure if the Honda engines can do that, ill google it i guess. Also, a lot of people severely underestimate the handling on american cars (the 60's cars pretty much handled like crap but thats old old technology, but they can be MADE to handle EXTREMELY well just the same) the F-Bodies and even the Cobra can handle theyre own, even the S2000 cant keep up with those on a road course (much less the Integras and Civics and MOST other cars). There arent many cars (other than the obvious ones) out there (and MORE IMPORTANTLY probably NONE of them are owned by any of the members that make statements like "american cars cant handle") that can actually beat those cars out on a road course. And im not reffering to you btw because im not sure how the old Evos handle, ill guess ill have to look it up.

[MauriSSio]

P.S it seems like the people who champion japanese or german cars always throw the very best those automakers have to offer against much more affordable and readily available american cars.

[Rough Chop Tom]

u cant get much more than 200hp outa a b18c realy (b18c comes from an integra type r), there prity much pushd to the limit at the factory, and dont even think about putting a turbo in one (thers heaps of them turbod tho) because i heard somewhere that the 1.8vtec engines outa the lower model hav a longer stroke or sumshit and are far better to turbo than the higher peforming b18c. 200hp fits nicely with alot of cars, im not tryna say that its huge power but 200hp in sum light little car is very decent. and imo getting 200hp factory from a 1.8litre thats naturally aspirated i.e no turbos or any form of chargers, is incredable. not to mention they rev to 10,000 strong, the red line is at 8500rpm, lol they looove revs the hondas

[memfrysrboi]

ive actually seen quite a lot of hondas on honda tech with 500hp+

[Mr Burns]

P.S it seems like the people who champion japanese or german cars always throw the very best those automakers have to offer against much more affordable and readily available american cars.


I agree, like the whole Supra/Camaro comparison. The fact that they are even comparing 25,000+dollar Camaro against a nearly 40,000 dollar Supra. Doesn't speak well for the Supra at all.

[memfrysrboi]

^^^^^nobody was comparing the supra to the camaro, sum were saying the highly anticipated camaro is all of this and gona be all of that when it comes out and i stated that the HIGHER anticipated GTR will be all of this and all of that ++++++++++++++++ more

[Krayzie7th]

yea and plus more money 2.lol

[seeking]

price doesnt actually matter when you guys are comparing car to car

my car (06 vw gti) is more expensive than its domestic competition (chevy cobalt ss) even though the SS has more hp....my car is built with better materials, it has a more expensive interior, and more electronics thus the higher price....also, its built in germany and shipped to america rather than being built here and shipped toa dealership...all that costs money.....so saying that a gtr is going to be more money than a camero or that a supra is more expensive than a comaro or whatever doesnt matter, because the additional costs are mostly due to luxery items and on how poor the dollar is doing in the economic world

[Mr Burns]

^to some extent, I agree with what you are saying. But you are comparing 2 cars that are in the same (compact)class at least. The mid 90's Supra should be compared to a mid 90's Corvette, not a Comaro. Both the Vette and Supra were priced around the same and both belong to the sport car segment.

[memfrysrboi]

yea and plus more money 2.lol
yea you say that like its a bad thing, the car enthusiats that wants it will go buy it regardless of cost because they know their getting a well built beautiful machine

[Mr Burns]

well thats because there are wayyyyyyyyyyy more camaros,trans ams, and cobras in america, but most of those are not faster than supras or skylines, supras are easily able to achieve 1000+hp on stock block and trans

^^^^^nobody was comparing the supra to the camaro, sum were saying the highly anticipated camaro is all of this and gona be all of that when it comes out and i stated that the HIGHER anticipated GTR will be all of this and all of that ++++++++++++++++ more

Nobody was comparing the Camaro to the Supra? Did you forget?

[memfrysrboi]

Nobody was comparing the Camaro to the Supra? Did you forget?
still see no actually comparison to supra and camaro

[MauriSSio]

thats because dollar for dollar there is no comparison.

[Chad_johnson]

i like a lil of everything but i voted jap.
RB26dett is why

[c-towNsawedOFF]

TY for taking this off sticky....and yes, jap prevails?!?!

[Rough Chop Tom]

i like a lil of everything but i voted jap.
RB26dett is why
:shaq:

[MauriSSio]

you import lovers and your R2D2 and C3P0 engines.i could never keep up with all the silly serial number designations..............

[seeking]

^lollll

[ChevyKiller]

I'll give my reason for the vote. I voted American for 3 reasons really

1) The Corvette z06, supercar performance for 1/3 the cost

2) Saleen S7, fastest production car ever produced period...dont quote the bugatti b/c Saleen has a 1000hp version :)

3) The Corvette and the Mustang. No 2 cars in the world are more loved and admired world wide then these 2 cars. The vette is over 50 yrs old, and the mustang is over 40yrs old, and are 2 of the most popular cars in all the world.

[seeking]

the bugatti veyron has 1001 hp

bugatti speciffically made sure to get that extra 1 hp so they could have the fastest production car

viper henessey venom has 1000hp as well

[ChevyKiller]

viper hennesey is not a production car...and auto MANUFACTURER has to make the car to be considered a production car. Therefore, an example would be a roush mustang....if it was the fastest car to ever be sold on a dealer lot, it wouldnt count b/c they are a tuner, not a manufacturer, they do not have to fallin line with EPA standards ect, Saleen has to b/c they are a manufacturer, and you have to be one if you want to build your own cars and sell them (ie s7).

I think the fastest production car in the world is somewhat subjective, b/c it could be the fastest to 100mph, or the highest top speed...there are a few different ways you can measure it. Either way, with the z06 and saleen s7 and corvette/mustangs/f150's...its hard for america to be beat :)

[memfrysrboi]

Either way, with the z06 and saleen s7 and corvette/mustangs/f150's...its hard for america to be beat :)
LMAO

[memfrysrboi]

I think the fastest production car in the world is somewhat subjective, b/c it could be the fastest to 100mph, or the highest top speed...there are a few different ways you can measure it.
99.9999999% of the time top speed is the measurement used for fastest production car

[MauriSSio]

LMAO

the truth has a way of being funny at times.

[MauriSSio]

99.9999999% of the time top speed is the measurement used for fastest production car

here you go again pulling numbers out of your ass, where exactly did you quote this statistic from?

If you geared a car properly you can make lots of them have good top speeds, but acceleration WILL BE compromised. Some people care about top speed only. others dont, so calling a car the fastest production car is always debateable unless it wins in every accceleration test as well.
Also ive read that the Bugatti doesnt actually make 1001 HP ill see if i can find a link, it might actually be more, but i think i read that its less.

[seeking]

the koennisegg ccx (i think thats what its called) makes like 1028hp as well, but im not sure if thats a production car, i am pretty sure it came out after the veyron though

[Krayzie7th]

im sure the Bugatti made 1001 hp but not to wheels im sure thats to the crank, that probably puts it around 950 or so the wheels, thats my guess.

[Krayzie7th]

i also know that the Hennesy viper reaches 0-200mph faster then the buggati.

[seeking]

0-200?


who cares about 0-200?

[C-Note]

^ tell me you're kidding

[seeking]

no really, 0-200 is not really very special

0-100-0

now THAT is something special

[C-Note]

:no:

[MauriSSio]

well, this is why "fastest car" is debateable. Im a muscle car guy, but i think i can relate to 0-100-0 a lot more because even if my car was capable of 250MPH i would NEVER even take it to 200MPH, theres nowhere to really even do that. But thats just me talkin.

[Rough Chop Tom]

y is everyone talking about cars they will never drive and never own lol?

[memfrysrboi]

here you go again pulling numbers out of your ass, where exactly did you quote this statistic from?

If you geared a car properly you can make lots of them have good top speeds, but acceleration WILL BE compromised. Some people care about top speed only. others dont, so calling a car the fastest production car is always debateable unless it wins in every accceleration test as well.
Also ive read that the Bugatti doesnt actually make 1001 HP ill see if i can find a link, it might actually be more, but i think i read that its less.
because first of all even though you say fastest production car is debateable i have never heard any magazine or website say a car is the fastest production car because of 1/4 mile times,1/8 mile,0-60,0-100, they always say top speed because thats the fastest a car can go

[Rough Chop Tom]

because first of all even though you say fastest production car is debateable i have never heard any magazine or website say a car is the fastest production car because of 1/4 mile times,1/8 mile,0-60,0-100, they always say top speed because thats the fastest a car can go:shaq:

[seeking]

well, this is why "fastest car" is debateable. Im a muscle car guy, but i think i can relate to 0-100-0 a lot more because even if my car was capable of 250MPH i would NEVER even take it to 200MPH, theres nowhere to really even do that. But thats just me talkin.


thats how i see it too, 253mph is nice, but its almost never going to happen, the top gear team had to take the veyron to vw's top secret testing track in germany that had like a 10 mile straight away or something like that just to reach that speed, and they had to come at the straight away from a bend doing over 100 allready if i remmeber correctly

[memfrysrboi]

thats how i see it too, 253mph is nice, but its almost never going to happen, the top gear team had to take the veyron to vw's top secret testing track in germany that had like a 10 mile straight away or something like that just to reach that speed, and they had to come at the straight away from a bend doing over 100 allready if i remmeber correctly
what about the Autobahn,Tokyo's wangan,England, well thats only if you live in those places you could hit those speeds all day:-D

[seeking]

well true lol

[Rough Chop Tom]

what about the Autobahn,Tokyo's wangan,England, well thats only if you live in those places you could hit those speeds all day:-D
too bad in the veyron u could only do it for 12mins b4 u have no fuel lol, and 15mins b4 u need new tyres.:-D

[Krayzie7th]

^^^haha true.

[seeking]

that never ceases to amaze me

[memfrysrboi]

too bad in the veyron u could only do it for 12mins b4 u have no fuel lol, and 15mins b4 u need new tyres.:-D
lol but imagine going 250+ for 12 min straight:-D

[Krayzie7th]

^^i would freaking pass out of too much fun i would be having..lol

[Rough Chop Tom]

not to mention the tyres probably cost 10g

[MauriSSio]

lol but imagine going 250+ for 12 min straight:-D
im sure other cars would get in the way,even on the autobahn.

[Rough Chop Tom]

im sure other cars would get in the way,even on the autobahn.
hense the reason he said imagine.

[memfrysrboi]

^^i would freaking pass out of too much fun i would be having..lol
i wouldn't be able to control myself and then pass out lol

[memfrysrboi]

im sure other cars would get in the way,even on the autobahn.
well ive heard theres alot of traffic in certain areas on the autobahn during the day but at night ive heard that its mostly clear the whole time

[seeking]

yea guys dont forget the autobahn is still a highway

[ChevyKiller]

LMAO

i've been absent from this...but you laugh at the comment when there is truth to it

z06, by far the fastest production car for u nder 100k...and it runs with cars 5x the cost

mustang, #1 selling sports car in america, and very abundant across the world

f150, the #1 selling truck in the world...according to what was said on top gear when they did the lightning, ford avg's 1 f150 sell every minute, everyday, for hte last few years

and the saleen s7 not only dominated Le Mans at one time or another, it has also been called the fastest production car in the world (we all know thats up in the air b/c it either is measured differently, or someone beats it every month nowadays)

I would agree, overall, Italy with their ferrari's has a certain something all car manufacturers wish they could replicate, and honda makes some nice daily driver stuff, so on and so forth.

I guess in the end, to be politically correct, its all subjective lol

[runnin_wit_da_ak47]

I'll give my reason for the vote. I voted American for 3 reasons really

1) The Corvette z06, supercar performance for 1/3 the cost

2) Saleen S7, fastest production car ever produced period...dont quote the bugatti b/c Saleen has a 1000hp version :)

3) The Corvette and the Mustang. No 2 cars in the world are more loved and admired world wide then these 2 cars. The vette is over 50 yrs old, and the mustang is over 40yrs old, and are 2 of the most popular cars in all the world.

Most popular cars in the world?? Um.. Have you been around the world?? Alot of places, especially in Europe don't think much of anythang that comes from America.. especially cars..

[Rough Chop Tom]

Most popular cars in the world?? Um.. Have you been around the world?? Alot of places, especially in Europe don't think much of anythang that comes from America.. especially cars..
i completely agree. lmao at how Americans think that there the only country in the world ahaha and that what they think is what everyone thinks.
Bottom line with the 'domestic's' is that they take a car with not much, and shove a huge fucker of an engine in it. unless u take ur car to the strip then wtf is the point of owning one when u can own a realy nice euro that is incredibly comfortable.

[runnin_wit_da_ak47]

i completely agree. lmao at how Americans think that there the only country in the world ahaha and that what they think is what everyone thinks.
Bottom line with the 'domestic's' is that they take a car with not much, and shove a huge fucker of an engine in it. unless u take ur car to the strip then wtf is the point of owning one when u can own a realy nice euro that is incredibly comfortable.

I like domestic cars.... but I'd rather build speed than buy it... anyone can buy a 550hp car... but how many people can build one?

[seeking]

^im with you on that, thats why ive never been a fan of mustangs, cameros, etc etc. i like taking a car and building the speed. if i was rich i wouldnt even have a lambo or ferrari, id have a 800hp GTI

[MauriSSio]

i completely agree. lmao at how Americans think that there the only country in the world ahaha and that what they think is what everyone thinks.
Bottom line with the 'domestic's' is that they take a car with not much, and shove a huge fucker of an engine in it. unless u take ur car to the strip then wtf is the point of owning one when u can own a realy nice euro that is incredibly comfortable.

LMAO @ europeans driving around in little buckets. Truth is, the engines put into domestic cars arent much bigger than the ones put in "euros", its just that american engines tend to have more displacement, you cant fault americans for liking power and the companies here delivering on that. And as far as comfortable "euros" theyre not any more comfortable than american cars, its more preference in styling. BMW and Volkswagen/Audi dont have the best reputation for longevity either (not at all) and actually have a terrible history of electrical problems. As far as BASIC transportation goes i think the Japanese are the only ones that really got everything right,but that would only be satisfying our needs, but when it comes down to it, this isnt about our needs but our WANTS.

When you say "a car with not much, and shove a huge fucker of an engine" which car were you specificaly talking about and what were you comparing it to?

[MauriSSio]

^im with you on that, thats why ive never been a fan of mustangs, cameros, etc etc. i like taking a car and building the speed. if i was rich i wouldnt even have a lambo or ferrari, id have a 800hp GTI

are GTI's available with AWD now? or do you think trying to control all that power would be fun in a FWD car?

[seeking]

well the GTI isnt awd, the r32 is though (the r32 is basiaclly an awd gti with a more powerful engine), so i could just retro fit the components....

[seeking]

LMAO @ europeans driving around in little buckets. Truth is, the engines put into domestic cars arent much bigger than the ones put in "euros", its just that american engines tend to have more displacement, you cant fault americans for liking power and the companies here delivering on that. And as far as comfortable "euros" theyre not any more comfortable than american cars, its more preference in styling. BMW and Volkswagen/Audi dont have the best reputation for longevity either (not at all) and actually have a terrible history of electrical problems. As far as BASIC transportation goes i think the Japanese are the only ones that really got everything right,but that would only be satisfying our needs, but when it comes down to it, this isnt about our needs but our WANTS.



i agree with all of that, except i would say that euro cars have more comfort items, little things taht people dont even notice and take for granted (ie sun visor over the rear view mirror for instance)

[Mr Burns]

^ i don't really agree that european cars have more comfort items. For every "comfort item" hat you could point out on a european car I could come up with something a domestic has that the europeans don't. For example most GM cars over the last 10 years have radios that automatically adujust to the volume to your speed.

[memfrysrboi]

Most popular cars in the world?? Um.. Have you been around the world?? Alot of places, especially in Europe don't think much of anythang that comes from America.. especially cars..
Exactly what I was thinking, only america loves mustangs and vettes, not japan, not australia, and not europe.

[memfrysrboi]

but I'd rather build speed than buy it... anyone can buy a 550hp car... but how many people can build one?
EXACTLY!!!!! Reason why I love imports/euros, they come slow but can be built into beast!!

[seeking]

^ i don't really agree that european cars have more comfort items. For every "comfort item" hat you could point out on a european car I could come up with something a domestic has that the europeans don't. For example most GM cars over the last 10 years have radios that automatically adujust to the volume to your speed.


well just an example that ive experienced. i have an 06 vw gti, my friend has an 06 cobalt ss. when i open my sunroof i turn a dial and it opens on its own to where i set that dial, when he does, he has to hold the button down and let go when it gets to where he wants. my cars lights automatically turn off when i turn off my car, his dont. my gas cap as a spot for my to place it while i fill up rather than having to hold it or let it dangle, he doesnt, when i open my door a light turns on underneath the actual door lighting up the ground outside, his doesnt, i have the option to turn on my driving lights, fog lights, city lights, tail lights, and rear fogs in any combonation i want, he cant. when i open my hood there is a little button underthe hood that i just have to lift on and it then automatically raises on its own accuator, he has to put his fingers inside and move the latch manually and then raise it up and prop it with that metal thing. on the jetta's when you open the trunk via remote the entire trunk raises up hands free, his doesnt do that. i have AC outlets in my hatch, he doesnt, i have airconditioned glove compartments, he doesnt, my seats have bolster settings, he doesnt...etc etc

and i know some domestics have those options, however im comparing same class cars to each other, if we step it up to say the passat vs the domestic equivilent, there would be even more differences...the passat has a holder for your umbrella inside the door like on the bugatti's for crying out loud lol

[MauriSSio]

well just an example that ive experienced. i have an 06 vw gti, my friend has an 06 cobalt ss. when i open my sunroof i turn a dial and it opens on its own to where i set that dial, when he does, he has to hold the button down and let go when it gets to where he wants. my cars lights automatically turn off when i turn off my car, his dont. my gas cap as a spot for my to place it while i fill up rather than having to hold it or let it dangle, he doesnt, when i open my door a light turns on underneath the actual door lighting up the ground outside, his doesnt, i have the option to turn on my driving lights, fog lights, city lights, tail lights, and rear fogs in any combonation i want, he cant. when i open my hood there is a little button underthe hood that i just have to lift on and it then automatically raises on its own accuator, he has to put his fingers inside and move the latch manually and then raise it up and prop it with that metal thing. on the jetta's when you open the trunk via remote the entire trunk raises up hands free, his doesnt do that. i have AC outlets in my hatch, he doesnt, i have airconditioned glove compartments, he doesnt, my seats have bolster settings, he doesnt...etc etc

and i know some domestics have those options, however im comparing same class cars to each other, if we step it up to say the passat vs the domestic equivilent, there would be even more differences...the passat has a holder for your umbrella inside the door like on the bugatti's for crying out loud lol

The Cobalt is overpriced a bit but the GTI still comes out at about $1300 more,so i guess youre paying fr all those extra gadgets, some people find those things unnecessary, ESPECIALLY if they have to pay for ir. On the upside for the Cobalt, it comes with leather which is unavailable for the GTI suprisingly and even MORE suprising is the GTI doesnt even have a LIMITED SLIP DIFFERENTIAL available! Theyre both nice cars and apparently both have some things not available to the other.

[seeking]

yea i know, they have the fake leather option :no: i went with cloth seats though anyways, i like the burburry plaid. but the lack of an LSD is one of the biggest gripes most new vw owners complain about. there is an aftermarket company producing one though

[~The Guyver~]

Most popular cars in the world?? Um.. Have you been around the world?? Alot of places, especially in Europe don't think much of anythang that comes from America.. especially cars..


Yet some of the most popular car companys in the WORLD are AMERICAN owned. holden is gm, opel, even lambo's are american owned now. ANd look at the charts he wasnt just talking out his ass.Those are national sales.its a fact. European cars tend to have more convenience features and are alot more focused on comfort no doubt. Japanese cars for the most part DONT handle better then american cars and the people constantly going on abotu it dont know shit about cars. I prefer domestics its no secret. And im VERY partial to german cars.Bitchs are tanks.But ive worked on 'em all and i guarantee ive probrably worked on more imports then most of the shit talkers in here will ever even touch. Of course a 4wd car is going to handle better in most aspects then a car thats just fwd or rwd. Hmmm DUH. When GM starts puttign their 4wd cars out in a few years, we will see who outperforms who. Japanese cars are good at saving on GAS, and yes the engines are usually pretty reliable.Especially toyota's in america.As most of those are built in america with american parts, and japanese technology, but performance is in domestics.Its a fact.Again thats why they are putting LS1's in evo's. Ive seen 3 of them at the small ass track here in osceola indiana ALONE.LS1's are going in EVERYTHING.Dont see to many evo engine swaps. Why do that when american engines are more powerful, have more performance options, are cheaper to build up and are all around better performing engines? And to this day american car bodys are built by FAR more sturdy then japanese ones.Prolly the only ones built more sturdy then american ones are german ones, n volvo's n shit.Trying to do body work on japanese cars that have been wrecked is a pain in the ass, because the bodys bend and warp so easy. Doesnt matter how long the engine in your honda lasts if the body cant handle any kind of abuse.

[memfrysrboi]

^^^here we go again:aim-doubt: ,let me be quiet though

[Deee]

Yet some of the most popular car companys in the WORLD are AMERICAN owned. holden is gm, opel, even lambo's are american owned now.
Opels are american owned now? never knew that, i thought it was still german. What pisses me off is if its American owned why did the Opel Roadster come out as the Saturn Sky. Im pretty sure they would have made more money with the opel brand since saturn is shit.

[~The Guyver~]

^^^here we go again:aim-doubt: ,let me be quiet though


Best thing to do when you dont know what you are talking about:shaq:

[~The Guyver~]

Opels are american owned now? never knew that, i thought it was still german. What pisses me off is if its American owned why did the Opel Roadster come out as the Saturn Sky. Im pretty sure they would have made more money with the opel brand since saturn is shit.


Ya Opel is owned by GM. Have been for a LONG time. That and Vauxhall are GM's biggest european brands.

[Deee]

Ya Opel is owned by GM. Have been for a LONG time. That and Vauxhall are GM's biggest european brands.
Saturn is under GM, right? So far the only opel to come out in the US is the Sky (Roadster in Europe), and now the Astra is comming.

[seeking]

saturn never just grabbed an opel and rebadged it (as far as i know). I know saturn was goign towards the opel styling though in hopes to increase sales.


also im 99.99% sure VW owns lamborghini

[memfrysrboi]

^^^^ yea thats what i wanted to know, where the hell did you(~The Fieldy~) get that lamborghini is American owned???????????????????????????????????

[memfrysrboi]

Best thing to do when you dont know what you are talking about:shaq:
NO, I KNOW what im talking about