do you think the industry put a wedge in hip-hops fan base?

[DRAGONSAMURAI]

you know by creating all of the division thats among hip-hop fans.

example,you can't talk about hip-hop any more among other fans of the genre unlike during the 80's and most part of the 90's,cause no matter what type of rap it was it was all good.unlike now you can't talk about hip-hop of any kind and you can't connect with the other person because he/she is out of the loop about mainstream/and or commercial rap or the other persons out of the loop about non commercia/mainstreaml hip-hop.and it usually end up in a unintentional heated argument.hell i have fallen into this problem cause i don't like whats popular at the moment.and consequintly i feel like i'm out of place


what do you guys think?

[Seven1/2Designs]

This is deep. I think the industry has something to do with this. But peoples tastes changing over the years has a big role in this aswell. But like we all should know by now, the media controls our thoughts, and actions, even if you don't realize it. Either through subliminal messages, or forcing products among people. This is the case with hiphop. It's so divided because we all grew up in different parts of the world, where music is heavily influenced by the culture.

Me and my ex used to argue all the time because of this very thing. We had 2 different opinions about what good music is. She was always into what everybody else was into. She's the type that if a new single came out by J-Kwon, she'd have to have it because it was getting crazy play on the radio or tv. I'm the total opposite. I can't listen to singles from commercialized artists because it's like getting hit over the head by a monkey holding a monkey wrench. I don't listen to music other people are throwing in my face. So this is the biggest problem with the topic at hand.

People who grew up in the 80's probably hated gangsta rap of the 90's, and those who grew up with gangsta rap can't stand what's being played these days. I grew up with Gangsta rap, but these days, i'm looking for more depth. I'm looking for someone who's gonna make me think. This has influenced my thinking a lot, and it's the reason why i'm only friends with people who feel the same way about music...because music is such a huge part of our lives.

But whatever happens, I hope hiphop could continue growing, and bring us the best... even if it's in the underground scene.

Sorry if I got off topic a bit.

[The-Scorpion]

i also belive its because said fans aren't well rounded.their just jaded hip-hop fans or casual hip-hop fans so talking to them about hip-hop would be difficult sense they seem to limit themselves.i even find myself doing it sometimes.though i would like to think i'm well rounded.i just hate blatant commercial rap.


and alot of hip-hop fans are just alienated from the mainstream collective,no matter what the sub-genre. so to a certain exstent it IS the industries fault.

Same thing with comics.

Literature.



If you take any creative field--art/entertainment--and add time to the equation, you'll have subdivisions and microgenres.

Because after the founders of an artform put down the basic essentials, there'll be a next generation who'll say "what if I do it like this?" And usually it all coexists, but adding more time, people will start to gravitate toward one of a few "standards," and voila! Instant subgenres. and you have a polarized fan base as a result,its inevitable really.

There were fewer divisions among Hip-Hop fans in the eighties and early nineties 'cause Hip-Hop an' Rap were much less diverse in musical style and subject matter.

It also occurs to me that it hasn't had an important, popular icon that the whole of the audience knows. Every rapper worth half-a-damn knows who Rakim is, but there's a substantial part of the hip-hop audience that wouldn't know his name.. Many, many more percentage wise than rock fans that have never heard of the Beatles and the Stones.
Hip-Hop is so of the now and so marketed to a youthful audience that there isn't a uniting sense of shared history.

Put a punk fan next to a metal fan (both are "rock") and see what happens. People who are really into a style of music are usually also really into the fashion and attitudes that surround that music. Different attitudes will lead to friction. There's no reason rap fans would be any different.

[Knuckles]

so true... im tired of hearin certain songs that get alota radio play thats like... nothin.. basically has no meanin or n e thing.. i slowly moved deeper n deeper underground ever since last summer... listenin 2 sommin diff like ICP n other Psychopathic artists... more Bone Thugs then i have in tha years b4.. n eventually stumblin across Tech N9ne n KmK... wit those.. u have more meanin on some1s life that wasnt always tryin 2 make some1 dance or talk about 1 thing on basically every track of tha cd (shakin ass...fuckin hoes..slangin crack..etc) u got sommin thats like...fuck tha industry... my axe is my budy... im trapped in a psychos body plz help me... n of course i stay wit tha Texas (Screw) music cuzz thats what i grew up on underground wise

some my friends i played a couple Tech N9ne songs 2.. Psycho Bitch n Here Comes Tecca Ninna... they werent really in2 em... they just aint well rounded 1 of em is tha type that always gota d/l tha latest song on tha radio n askes me what new songs r on tha radio n gets frustrated when i tell him 4 tha 20th time i dont listen 2 tha radio much no more

n e wayz ima stop im just ramblin..

[CHEYENNE]

Some of you guys kinda strayed from the topic but anyways.The wedge was always there. The underlying East Coast bias that irked a lot of Midwest, Southern and West Coast cats was prevalent in the late 80s. However it wasn't as bad as it appears now. Two reasons of the top of the head I can think of are:

1) Playlists on the radio topping at 100-150 songs (total) on many stations per day. Keeping in mind that there are very few if any all rap stations (outside of satellite) so hip-hop shares time with top 40, R&B, Alt and Rock. You get ambushed with the same song every 2 to 3 hours. Sometimes every hour. Just yesterday, I turned on the radio, for the first time in a month and heard 50's "Candy Shop". I park the car to work out, get back in my car about an hour and a half later and that's the same song on the radio. Oversaturation OF THE SAME THING has expanded the divide within rap fans.

2.) The Internet. Messageboards where people can place their opinions have popped up everywhere. It's exceedingly simple to get a place on the net to share your viewpoint with the world. Critics are everywhere and they can gain access to any home with a 14.4K modem and computer. It's not necessarily a problem, but it does help polarize some fans. People feel the need to protect what's theirs. And some feel the need to attack what they dislike. As everyone is different, that means more things will be attacked and defended as time goes on. Rap is no different.

Getting back on topic, the reality of the situation is that there always has been a divide, and when you're dealing with something as artistic and interpretative as music, you'll always have differences of opinion. The divide is more empassioned at this point, but that's mainly because of a lack of diversity.

For the MOST part i think theres alot of respect among the different rap artists themselves.its just the fans whom don't get along,and are divided.hip-hops fan base as a whole just arent solid like the other genres.hip-hop fans are splintered,and somtimeded (their not loyal)

Either way It's all hip hop to me.

The only beef I have with mainstream hip hop is the same beef I have with mainstream music in general. Lack of variety. The sameness of the content is what turns me off, not the content itself.

[LyricalAbyss]

i have fallen into this problem cause i don't like whats popular at the moment.and consequintly i feel like i'm out of place


^ agreed.

[CHEYENNE]

i also belive its because said fans aren't well rounded.their just jaded hip-hop fans or casual hip-hop fans so talking to them about hip-hop would be difficult sense they seem to limit themselves.i even find myself doing it sometimes.though i would like to think i'm well rounded.i just hate blatant commercial rap.


and alot of hip-hop fans are just alienated from the mainstream collective,no matter what the sub-genre. so to a certain exstent it IS the industries fault.

Same thing with comics.

Literature..
this is true...............but i rarely find it hard for me to find a type of hip-hop i can't discuss constructively,even if i'm not into it.


If you take any creative field--art/entertainment--and add time to the equation, you'll have subdivisions and microgenres.

Because after the founders of an artform put down the basic essentials, there'll be a next generation who'll say "what if I do it like this?" And usually it all coexists, but adding more time, people will start to gravitate toward one of a few "standards," and voila! Instant subgenres. and you have a polarized fan base as a result,its inevitable really..i agree this is the root of the polarazation,i think people have a hard time rapiping their head around the fact that theres different TYPES of hip-hop.sure its all hip hop at its core.but its all not the same type of hip-hop.so i always wonder why people would attack lil jon and the WHOLE crunk sub-genre.and do stupid shit like judge him by comparing him to other rappers like nas wich is idiocy.i mean thats like comparing mudvayne,or metalica to the rolling stones.you have to judge lil john within the context of crunk not pure hip-hop

There were fewer divisions among Hip-Hop fans in the eighties and early nineties 'cause Hip-Hop an' Rap were much less diverse in musical style and subject matter.

It also occurs to me that it hasn't had an important, popular icon that the whole of the audience knows. Every rapper worth half-a-damn knows who Rakim is, but there's a substantial part of the hip-hop audience that wouldn't know his name.. Many, many more percentage wise than rock fans that have never heard of the Beatles and the Stones.
Hip-Hop is so of the now and so marketed to a youthful audience that there isn't a uniting sense of shared history..i agree with this aswell............

Put a punk fan next to a metal fan (both are "rock") and see what happens. People who are really into a style of music are usually also really into the fashion and attitudes that surround that music. Different attitudes will lead to friction. There's no reason rap fans would be any different.
this is verry true every sub-genre of music comes with its own subculture.so of course every rap fans won't mesh.but i still think its better to be well rounded,and i do agree with black dragon that its hard to talk about hip-hop with out it turning into a bitter argument.if you can find a diverse hip-hop fan who like hip-hop as a WHOLE the conversation you can have with him/her would be limitless.but a girl can dream can she.

[Andy Jay]

Music is just growing. Hip-hop started with a few main acts, and now its expanding and different sounds are evolving for different liking. That's why it's hard 2 compare rappers like Common and The Game, because they are in two different categories. Each artist has a goal on what audience he/she wants to reach and how they want to do their music. Pretty soon, a new genre will evolve out of hiphop.

[CHEYENNE]

Pretty soon, a new genre will evolve out of hiphop.
thats already happened............

[Knuckles]

thats already happened............

like what?

[nastyman2k4]

Music is just growing. Hip-hop started with a few main acts, and now its expanding and different sounds are evolving for different liking. That's why it's hard 2 compare rappers like Common and The Game, because they are in two different categories. Each artist has a goal on what audience he/she wants to reach and how they want to do their music. Pretty soon, a new genre will evolve out of hiphop.

music isnt growing, theres no more, john coltrane's, commodores, max roaches, marvin gayes, 0'jays, mozarts, chopan's, beethovan's. now its these godawful groups like jagged edge, 112, who dont bring any vibes when your with your girl, john-i cant play the piano or sing but somehow im platinum-legend, these trash rappers like young jiz face and lil pussy, david banner who is pathetic .who overshadow gangstarr and ghostface, royce, and the tons of other real rappers. I mean have you seen the Bet awards it looks like a fuckin circus theres so many clowns.

[DRAGONSAMURAI]

like what?
other forms of rap..............

[DRAGONSAMURAI]

these trash rappers like young jiz face and lil pussy, david banner who is pathetic .
i guess you completely miss the point of the topic.................nnobody understands my topic but seven,tish,and cheyenne.everybody else just a gave the typical "i hate commercial rap" rants lol

[CHEYENNE]

music isnt growing, theres no more, john coltrane's, commodores, max roaches, marvin gayes, 0'jays, mozarts, chopan's, beethovan's. now its these godawful groups like jagged edge, 112, who dont bring any vibes when your with your girl, john-i cant play the piano or sing but somehow im platinum-legend, these trash rappers like young jiz face and lil pussy, david banner who is pathetic .who overshadow gangstarr and ghostface, royce, and the tons of other real rappers. I mean have you seen the Bet awards it looks like a fuckin circus theres so many clowns.
don't you think that type of attitude is adding to the problem?

[DRAGONSAMURAI]

don't you think that type of attitude is adding to the problem?it is............

[Twizted King EBK]

I agree most people are close minded. I hate mainstream music cause it's evrywhere. Even if I like a song on the radio by the time I have some money for it I've seen the video or heard it on the radio way to much. Any way people grow on certain types of music and don'y change. I've grown up on BTNH and DOD, TSM. I'm more into harmonic flows of beats and lyrics. I also love the fuck out of TSM's beats. It'd harder for me to listen to other types but I have been listiening to a variety of rap artists. I like Tech N9ne, I.C.P, Kotton Mouth Kings, Purple City Birdgang, Too Short, T-Rock-one of the best underground artists just listen to Mr Washington story and all of his other stuff. Crime Mob, Cannibis, N.W.A, Ice Cube, Run DMC, Grandmaster Flash the message song. 2 Pac, Biggie. just to name a few. I'm open minded when it comes to music. Fuck Tha Industry!!!

[DRAGONSAMURAI]

I think the problem is fans of "non commercial" artists walk around with a false sense of superiority. They think that they listen to "real hip hop" while everyone else is listening to that "commercial shit"

Thats where the divide begins to occur. It has nothing to do with the industry. There always was, and always will be underground and mainstream. The 90's kinda blurred that divide because the COMMERCIAL MAINSTREAM rap genre was gangsta rap. And even though it was the POPular music of the time the "hard core" messages also allowed it to be viewed as "real" to even fans of underground rap.

So thats why some of you might think all of a sudden the industry is dividing the fans. Because the popular rap is no longer gangsta rap underground fans dont respect much commercial rap because it doesnt have the "street cred" sound to it anymore.

But rap is rap is rap, its all music, its all a form of entertainment. there is NO "real rap" because there is no "fake rap"

Just because someone might think rapping about bling bling isnt a deep message, or just because they cant relate to it DOESNT change the fact that rapping about bling bling is STILL RAPPING.the wave of new sub genre's that camed out of the verry diverse 90's added to the division aswell.

[K.Battlezone]

I think the problem is fans of "non commercial" artists walk around with a false sense of superiority. They think that they listen to "real hip hop" while everyone else is listening to that "commercial shit"

Thats where the divide begins to occur. It has nothing to do with the industry. There always was, and always will be underground and mainstream. The 90's kinda blurred that divide because the COMMERCIAL MAINSTREAM rap genre was gangsta rap. And even though it was the POPular music of the time the "hard core" messages also allowed it to be viewed as "real" to even fans of underground rap.

So thats why some of you might think all of a sudden the industry is dividing the fans. Because the popular rap is no longer gangsta rap underground fans dont respect much commercial rap because it doesnt have the "street cred" sound to it anymore.

But rap is rap is rap, its all music, its all a form of entertainment. there is NO "real rap" because there is no "fake rap"

Just because someone might think rapping about bling bling isnt a deep message, or just because they cant relate to it DOESNT change the fact that rapping about bling bling is STILL RAPPING.

Completely agree.

I don't think the business had anything to do with the split. Just like cigarette companies, the rap industry has their targets , mainly because there's a diversity of rap. The fans make the split. They are too opinionated.

OHH YESS. Alot of people (perfect example is this board) walk around with a false sense of superiority just because they hear underground shit. Most of these people are like Tech N9ne and Sandman and all that. I swear those are the most ignorant fans ever. But its not their fault that they think that way. They get messages from their artists saying FTI and all that crap. So in a way I guess maybe the industry does have something to do with it.

[Dat Nizzle]

If its not commercial and non commercial music, if its not grundge and rock n roll, then what? Music fans will always have something to argue over because its all about what you like. If you like Jay Z, be proud. If you like Sandman, be proud. The music makes you who you and whether or not I like the music I hear on the radio, that's up to me not to like. If I rather pick up underground mixtapes, then who ever is hot right now, that's my way. If I like the new Bow Wow (not that I do but its an extreme example) then so be it. We get way to caught up in the whole what we like to listen too debate.

Of course, a healthy debate is a good debate, but as long as it doesn't end up getting anyone locked up or killed or anything else along those lines.

[DRAGONSAMURAI]

, mainly because there's a diversity of rap.

.but see thats the problem right there,the media doesn't show the diversity,and companies don't support diversity.thats where alot of frustration comes from among fans.

[Bubba]

but see thats the problem right there,the media doesn't show the diversity,and companies don't support diversity.thats where alot of frustration comes from among fans.


It's the media and the companies job to make money.

It's the rap fans right to get their moneys worth.

If your favorite rap solo artist, and group don't get support from the media and companies, it's their job to keep your loyalty_a.k.a. MONEY.

Go underground, play the clubs, the bars. What ever it takes to make me happy, i don't wanna hear about the record company is fuckin you around, i wanna hear so music.

I'm not trying to pay their bills, i'm just trying to buy a CD.

Old school, New school, Main Stream playit.

[Hitokiri]

im not really into mainstream rap its to comercial and most it doesnt sound it but still alot of people buy it. but just becoz someoine gets played on the radio alot doesnt change his popularity to next rapper coz he may not be playe dalot but he sells more for example. even though most of his music might be directed towards sex, money etc, it sells and for the record company thats all they want they just go with whats selling cdoz its a winning combo, even if they loss a 20% margin of fans they might get a 30% boost of profit, and for the record comp and the artist thats all that matters to them, coz w/o profit = no cd and thats all they want to do bring out another cd.

anywho i get this prob to with my friends they into the mainstream rap (like eminem etc) im into dark underground rap (jedi mind tricks, e99, etc) n they dont like it n i dont like theres, so it causes an argument. ands theres very little to no publicity on dark rap n underground on TV or the radio only in magazines, so noone can hear or knopw about it so they dont listen to it.

thats juz my opinion anyway of topic but none the less who cares